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I’m in, teach me how to do it! Teach you how to do it? Teach me how to do it! I can’t. So what I’ve been sitting here listening to… Ha, ha, ha, ha! Well, the thing is… I’m in, I’m in. I’ll teach you how to do it. Okay. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. All the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in Christ. You cannot know anything at all unless you start with God. You say you know it to be true that my argument is not valid? - Yes. Can you tell me sir how you know that to be true? Because through multiple years of experience, through everything that I have observed in life and through what others have observed and compiling this knowledge, and applying the scientific method and applying the other things of logic and all of this, I can bring this together and make a claim that what you’re saying is not correct and valid in relation – okay - to all of this other evidence. If I walk up there and I were to blast you in the face with my right hand… Right. Instantly your eyes would fill with tears, blood would pour and it -right - would be very real to you. It doesn’t work. No that’s not what I’m saying at all. You’re saying, you’re saying, that I can’t be certain of anything because it’s based on my own reasoning, but you can’t be certain God exists ... because you reading the Bible - Listen - is based on our own reasoning - you just said I could have certainty, right? I said you could have certainty if you know God exists – Right - but the fact that you
think God exists is based on your own reasoning. Okay, so nobody can have certainty? Nobody can have certainty. Are you certain of that? And I’m certain of it. I was talking to a great friend of mine and the first thing I said to him was "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge" (laughs) and we were talking about six hours about this apologetic, and the light finally went on, and his eyes went wide open and he said: “I get it! They can’t know anything unless they start with God” and I said, “Man, that’s the first thing I told you.” Alright now, what I’m talking about today is apologetics. That’s a reasoned defense of your faith. That’s what apologetics is. Now why do you think unbelievers don’t like evidence for the existence of God? [Voice from audience] They don’t like God. Because they’re unbelievers, (laughs), that’s right. Christians, we love the evidence for the existence of God. Why’s that? Because we’re Christians. That’s right and this is a question that I ask people, because I’m sure most of you, all of their lives, like myself, when an unbeliever came up to me and said, “I really don’t believe that God exists” I’d say, “oh really?”
well, here’s some evidence.” Personally, I think it’s far more logical to draw conclusions based on the evidence. Let’s not believe in the authority of the Bible merely because the Bible claims to be true. Let’s look at modern cosmology, physics, biochemistry and genetics, all of which point powerfully toward a supernatural creator who looks suspiciously like the God of the Bible.” Atheism or Christianity, that is for each of us to decide on the basis of the evidence, of course. But we’re gonna show, through two scientific arguments and one philosophical argument, that there’s a spaceless, timeless immaterial, powerful, moral, personal, intelligent creator out there, and we’re not gonna use the Bible to show you that evidence, we’re just going to give you evidence and let you see where it leads. Out in the world, where do you hear evidence most often? In court. Who do you give evidence to in court? The judge. The judge and the jury. So we go out in the street in the campus, with some arrogant snot-nose kids like that and they say, “I don’t believe in God,” and what’s the first thing we do?
We give them evidence. And when we give them evidence, who are we saying is the judge? [Voice from audience] Them. Them And who is on trial? [Voice from audience] God God. So we go out on the street and we say, “you sir are the judge, the Lord of glory is on trial." What does Scripture say? Do not put the Lord your God to the test. And what are we doing, we’re out there saying that God’s on trial. And you know what the problem with that is? You can win that court case, because God has given us wonderful evidences. Evidences are a wonderful gift from God for Christians to bolster our faith. You can win that court case and you can acquit God, but what’s the problem? Who’s the judge? Okay, so you believe in proof? Yes. Now proof presupposes truth, logic and knowledge, correct? Yes. Okay, now what is truth in your worldview? Truth is uhhh, what has been accepted and what has been tested. Truth, so, when you, would you agree that truth is factual?
Truth is whatever is real? Yes. So you have a correspondence theory of truth. Truth is that what corresponds to reality. Correct? Yes. How do you know what’s real? I know what’s real by what is tested – right - and accepted over and over and over again okay - throughout time, and through scientific measures – right - and through the scientific theory Okay, now, in order to come to those truth claims, you’re employing your reasoning, correct? To an extent, but I’m also employing the reasonings of thousands - right - of other men But in order to interpret what those thousands of other people say, you’re employing your reasoning Yes. Okay so truth, you know through your reasoning, right? Along with… Alright, but the thing is you have to reason about what other people say. My question to you sir, is how do you know you’re reasoning’s valid? I don’t. That’s right, so if you don’t know your reasoning’s valid, would it not follow that you can’t know anything to be true? Yes. Okay, so that’s the problem. Because if I... But doesn't it get ... But is that the same for you, do you not know anything to be true? No, no, no!
What I’m saying is you do know things to be true. To deny truth, to deny knowledge is a logical fallacy. We know things to be true in our own realm, like you said, what is real. Well, this is the question sir, could you be wrong about everything you claim to know? Yes. Okay, now here’s the problem with that because when you say you could be wrong about everything you claim to know, you’ve given up knowledge, and I’m going to explain that to you. Let’s say I ask you how tall this building was, and you say, “it’s 50 feet tall but I could be wrong” do you know it? No. Not if you could be wrong. Correct. So if you could be wrong about everything you claim to know, it follows that you know nothing. Yes, oh absolutely. But the problem is you do know things. No, I don’t think so, the only thing I do know, is that I know nothing. Do you know that? Yeah. That’s two. Do you know that you’re at this university? Do you know that you’re studying? No, I’m dreaming. See, that’s right you could be dreaming. Yeah. So without - unless you start - I’m going to explain to you why, unless you start with God, you cannot know anything at all. But you do know things. You’re spending big money to be at a university to study things. Cop pulls you over, and rolls down the window and you say “I don’t know if you exist sir, I’m not going to pay the fine,” or whatever. You don’t live like that. Hang on, this guy’s having a very good conversation, if you'll please not interrupt.
What I’m gonna say is unless you start with God… Hang on. Unless you start with God, you can't know anything, because in order to know anything at all you would have to know everything. Because if you don’t know everything, what you don’t know could contradict what you think you know. [Voice in background] You're a dangerous man. Does that make sense to you? It does, but can’t the argument be posed in the same way uhh… that you’re talking about God? Well, we’ll get to that in just a minute, okay? And I’ll be glad to answer your question. You’re reasoning very well, sir. So, in order to know anything, you would have to know everything, right? Or… have revelation from someone who does. That’s the Christian worldview. God has revealed truth to us in His Word, such that we can know it for certain. Cause you know things for certain. Do you know why you know things for certain? Because you know that God exists, and that’s what the Bible says. People don’t go to hell for denying what they don’t know, they go to hell for their sin against the God they do know and I expose that people know God when they make knowledge claims that they can’t account for without him. [Voice in background] Is that a Bible in his hand? See that’s the problem. See Jesus Christ did not only die to save souls for eternity, he died to save reasoning now!
Because you if you say, “I could be wrong about everything I claim to know,” I say: “Could you be wrong about that?” It’s absurdity and that’s the option: you have God or absurdity, but people choose absurdity because they love their sin! Now imagine somebody came up to you and said, “I don’t believe in words,” we’d think that they were a fool, we wouldn’t believe them, and we wouldn’t take out our dictionary and give them evidence. But it somebody came up to you and said, “I don’t believe in God,” we believe them, we give them evidence and we don’t think they’re a fool, when the Bible calls them fools! Something has gone wrong. I mean, listen to the Bible verses, “The heavens declare the glory of God.” “The skies proclaim the work of his hands.” It doesn’t say: "The heavens proclaim the glory of God, if He exists.” Ya know, and in Romans chapter 8, Paul says, “I am convinced that nothing can separate me from the love of the Father.” What a beautiful verse! I mean you see people in church, tears streaming down their face; “Nothing can separate me from the love of the father.” What comfort that is! And the next day they go out, they talk to people at work and they say: “You know I could be wrong.”
“I could be wrong.” You know, that’s a nice conversation with the guy at work. It bolsters his unbelief. It bolsters his denial of the God he knows exists, but it’s not the God that I believe in. It’s not the God they were worshipping in church the day before, but they give him Pascal’s Wager: “I could be wrong, but if I’m wrong, I die, rot in the ground, worms eat my body. If I’m right, I get to go to heaven. If you’re wrong, you go to Hell. If you’re right, you die, rot in the ground, worms eat… What have you got to lose man? What have you got to lose? But you know what? God is not a bet. He’s not even a good bet. He’s not even the best bet. He’s the certain God that has proclaimed himself certainly, and when we say that to the unbeliever, we're talking about something we don’t believe in. We’re not, we’re talking about a different God that we worshipped in church the day before. Most of my life when I was defending my faith, I was doing it wrong, I was giving evidences to the unbeliever. The problem is, most Christians are doing it wrong today, I mean look at the books that we have: Twenty Compelling Evidences That God Exists.
The Case For Christ. The Handbook of Christian Evidences. Evidence For God. Evidence That Demands a Verdict. Who's the judge in this case? Not the creator of the universe – the unbeliever! These people know that God exists, so instead of believing what the Bible says, we believe them when they say that they don’t believe that God exists, we elevate them to the position of judge, and we put God on trial. The wrath of God is being revealed from Heaven against all the Godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened, although they claimed to be wise, they became fools. Now, according to that verse, who needs proof that God exists?
[Voice in audience] No one. Nobody. Nobody, and what do we do, when we go out into the world? We try and prove that God exists to people. Personally, I think it’s far more logical to draw conclusions based on the evidence. That is for each of us to decide on the basis of the evidence, of course. We’re just gonna give you evidence and let you see where it leads. This has been drilled in our heads for so long, that we believe the unbeliever over the Word of God, and the problem is that I’m gonna tell all of you this today, and tomorrow you’re gonna go out and the guys gonna say, “I don’t believe in God,” “How do you know that God exists?” And you’re gonna say: “Every building needs a builder.” God is not 'A' builder. God is not 'A' builder, He’s THE builder, and they know it and they’re without excuse for denying it. That’s the God that we believe in. The other day I felt my heart beating in my chest, and I thought to myself: “I have
a pump in my chest about the size of my fist made of meat. It pumps 700,000 gallons of blood per year and runs for 90 years on donuts, and I gotta prove that God exists? Evidence for God? Look around! I don’t have to give you evidence for God. You know that God exists. That’s the God we have to talk about when we defend our faith. I’m saying that this is the perfect time to open their life to give it a chance. I’d say give Him a 60 day trial. See if He'll change your life, I dare you. Are you kidding me? Who in Scripture tried Jesus? - Pontius Pilate, and he only tried Him for a few hours. If Pontius Pilate didn’t repent, he’s in Hell. Try the Lord of glory? We’ve got to get on our knees and submit to him. I can’t comprehend the concept of only one way to God for one simple reason, there are still people in this world who will never hear it - village in India.
Right Who may never hear of Christianity except perhaps as a term. Right. It makes no sense to me that a loving God would condemn them to Hell for not believing in Jesus when they never heard of Him. Well I’ve got some good news for you, nobody goes to hell for not believing in Jesus. Okay. Hallelujah, right? Do you know why people go to Hell? Because of their sin. Okay. Those people, in those tribes, in the deepest darkest jungles are sinning against the God they know exists. Mmhmm. That’s why we send missionaries, because they’re going to Hell for their sin against the God they know exists. If they didn’t know, sending missionaries would be the worst thing we could do for them. We should have wall building teams, to build walls around these communities. But the Bible says that everybody knows that God exists and are without excuse for their sin against Him. Even people that profess another ‘god’ know the true God, Cause they’re not gonna be able to say… “Ahhh, I thought it was Allah, I guess I was wrong. Say no, you know the true God that exists. Even you! Now the thing is at this point, people are saying well I was convinced, I was converted because of evidence.
Does that mean I’m not a Christian? No, it doesn’t mean that, it doesn’t mean that at all. God can take a bent stick and strike a straight blow. God can save people through evidences, but I’m really afraid of people who say that they’re Christians because of the evidence. Christians because of the evidence. Because if you’re a Christian because of the evidence, then you’re not a Christian. Because you know what can happen, if you have evidences to convince you that God exists and you’re a Christian because of the evidence, you’re still the judge, and the problem with that is the next day you can back over your three-year-old kid who's playing in the driveway, kill them. Now all of a sudden you got evidence that there's no God, and the scales are going back and forth, and back and forth. Oooh, now I’m not so sure that I’m a Christian anymore. I’m not so sure about that. And then you give them some more evidence and ohhh, now I’m a Christian again. Then they watch a Richard Dawkins video and it’s going back this way. But what’s the problem? Who's holding the scale? The unbeliever! The unbeliever is judging God based on the evidence.
They’ve never submitted and bowed the knee to Jesus Christ. When the Bible calls the unbeliever a fool, it’s not a judgment on their intellect, it’s a moral charge. These people are willfully rejecting the God they know exists. My father, he uhh, worked at an electronics firm, and he had some Russians come to visit him, and these were people from backwoods Russia. They were having a break, and this Russian fellow wanted a cup of tea, so my father got him some boiling water and got him a tea bag, and the Russian fellow took the tea bag and he went to rip it and pour it into his tea and my father says, “no, you throw the whole thing in.” So the guy thought it was kinda weird, looked at my dad, but he wanted some sugar for his tea as well, so my father got him a sugar bag and he took it and threw it in his tea, and my father says, “no you rip it open and you pour it in," and the guy looked at my father as if he was crazy. Now would that guy be a fool? No, he didn’t’ know any better. A fool is someone who knows better. Who did Jesus call the fool?
The builder who built his house on the sand. You think that guy didn’t know better? He probably wanted beach front property and didn’t’ care what would happen to his house That’s the person who the Scriptures call a fool. That’s who we’re dealing with. Right, I live in a world of I don’t know. That’s right, do you know that you live in that world? I know for a fact that I live in that world. See now, that’s not a world of I don’t know, that’s a "I know I live in that world." See that’s contradictory. That is contradictory! That's - you threw me off there, you're good. [expletive] Alright, that’s a good point! [expletive] Ummmm. So you do believe in a standard of truth then? I do believe in that, but I don’t believe any human can come to a specific conclusion about that because… Is that true? Yes, that is true. Okay, but you’ve come to a conclusion about that. The one truth that I know is that no single person can synthesize know for certain whatever it is they say that they’re knowing. Okay, so you know that… They can have, they can have more or less evidence. So you know that nobody can know anything? You know that for certain? Yes. Okay, so that’s a certain knowledge claim, now let me ask you this question: In order
to come to that certain knowledge claim are you employing your reasoning? Yes. Okay, now let me ask you this question: How do you know your reasoning about anything is valid? Because, because it’s based off of other things – so - when you start from a thing that you can’t contest with, there's one thing to speculate, but I can look down and I know I’m looking down because I performed the action of looking down. So what you’re doing is, you’re telling me that you know you’re reasoning is valid by using your reasoning? I’m using evidence to come up with a way of reasoning. Right, but thing is, I’m asking you how you know your reasoning is valid, and you’re using your reasoning. Because it’s not my opinion, it’s what is and what isn’t. Okay is that true? It has nothing to do with what I think. Is that true? Yes. But you told me you only know one thing to be true and that's that people don’t know anything and now you’re making another truth claim. But there is more evidence that what I’m saying is true. Is it true that there’s more evidence? Yes. See now that’s another truth claim, see - but - that’s three now. See now you’re using the same word to constitute different things, you’re saying, that truth is…
Is that true? Yes. See, that’s the difficulty. Well because Scripture says, do not answer the fool according to his folly lest you be like him and I say well, take a look at my debates, you know, that tells us how not to answer the fool. Do not answer the fool lest you be like him, but you know what I do in my debates? I answer him according to his folly. When somebody says to me, “There is no certainty”, I say, “Are you certain about that?” You see what I did there? I answered him according to his folly, so that he doesn’t get all puffed up, so he’s not wise in his own eyes and I say, “why didn’t God tell us that?” He told us how not to answer the fool in Proverbs 26:4: “Don’t answer the fool according to his folly." Why didn’t he tell us how to answer the fool? Why didn’t he tell us to answer the fool according to his folly lest he be wise in his own eyes? Wait a minute! That sounds familiar! That verse is in the Bible too, somewhere in Malachi, right? Somewhere, ya know, Malachi or in Habakkuk, one of those other books, Ya know that you really gotta find out. He says how not to answer the fool, but somewhere deep hidden in the Bible somewhere is how to answer the fool. No, Proverbs 26 verse 5.
The very next verse: “Answer the fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes.” Before I understood this apologetic, I never understood those two verses, but this makes perfect sense! Don’t answer him according to his folly. Don’t assume that God doesn’t exist. Oh! you don’t believe in God? How can you make sense of anything? You say there is no certainty, are you certain of that? What I’ve learned in teaching apologetics is that the error that people make is they’re either defending God wrong or they're defending the wrong God. Scripture tells us there’s only one God, so if you’re defending the wrong God, you're not defending the God of the Bible. I mean you can look at our arguments - look at the - we use the cosmological argument, say that - umm everything which begins to exist must have a cause, the universe began to exist therefore it must have a cause. It must be an un-caused cause and that un-caused cause is God. We use all these books, and have all these arguments to try and reason to God. We have arguments that conclude God. God is not "a god" that we can reason to, He’s THE God that we can’t reason without.
Proverbs 1 verse 7 says, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.” Paul in Colossians 2 says, “In Christ are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." Why do you think Paul told us that? He tells us in the very next verse. “I tell you this, so no one may deceive you by fine sounding arguments.” What do we have, fine sounding arguments. This is Paul’s warning to Timothy “Guard what has been entrusted to your care, turn away from Godless chatter, and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge.” What is false knowledge? “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world, rather than on Christ.” That’s what we’re doing. What’s the most famous apologetic verse? 1 Peter 3:15, “Always be prepared to give a defense of your faith.” People always forget the beginning of that verse, “But set apart Christ as Lord, always
be prepared to give a defense of your faith.” That’s what we have to get back to, we don’t conclude God, we start with God and we show them that if you don’t start with God, your worldview is absurd. You say you know to be true that my argument is not valid? Yes! Can you tell me sir how you know that to be true? Because through multiple years of experience, through everything that I have observed in life and through what others have observed and compiling this knowledge, and applying the scientific method and applying the other things of logic and all of this, I can bring this together and make a claim that what you’re saying is not correct and valid in relation… Okay - to all of this other evidence. You’re appealing to your senses, your memory, and your reasoning – yes - to come to a knowledge claim - yes But you just told me you could be wrong about everything you claim to know… Yes. You could be in the matrix for all you know. Could be, yes. So then, how could you know anything about experience or anything like that, how can you appeal to your experience? Here’s the thing, here’s the thing... but the thing is… hang on, let me finish, this is a very good point because I’m not saying that you people don’t know things I’m saying you do know things, but you suppress the truth in unrighteousness about your only possible [justification] for knowledge, the God you know exists, the God, that if you get hit by a truck, you’re gonna face tonight.
If you could prove to my satisfaction that God does exist, the God of the Bible exists, will I worship him? No. Why not? Because he’s kind of a jerk. If I believed that God exists, and I believed that it was the Bible God that existed, I would not worship it, because it is a criminal thing. Now if a better God existed than the one in the Bible, I still wouldn’t worship it but at least it would be worthy of respect. We’re talking about the God of the Bible as an absolutely all-powerful sort of deity. Well I would see that as the same as somebody who has all power leading a country. I don’t know whether I agree with that person that just because they have power that I would worship him. I would have to really see it in action to see if I agree with it ethically on my terms. So, all your work is still ahead of you, even if you think that these nonsensical fairy tales do have any basis in fact. So I grant the whole thing and it makes no difference to me, it wouldn’t’ make me a Christian if it was all true. The stranger on the... Nor - It shouldn’t’ make you one either, unless you are a completely credulous person.
You ask somebody, “If I could you sufficient evidence to prove that God exists, would you worship Him?" Most people will say “no,” but you might get someone who says, Ya, I'd worship Him." and I say, “Ya know what? You probably would because any "god" that requires me to give evidence to you, is not the God of the Bible. Would it really make sense that the Creator of the universe would have to give you evidence before you will bow down to Him? I mean that doesn’t make any sense. You see the issue is not evidence. As a Christian, what is the foundation of our reasoning? The foundation of our reasoning is God, cause let’s face it we believe some things, that without God are nuts. I believe that a donkey talked. I believe that a snake talked. I believe that a man who was dead for three days came back to life. I believe that an axe head floated. Why do I believe those things? Because God is the foundation of my reasoning and He says that’s true that’s why I believe it. Now an unbeliever will say to you: “Well, I am no longer a Christian because something did not make sense to me.”
I say “Oh, so you’re the authority of your reasoning now.” “Yes.” But as a Christian God was the authority. Yes. I say "How do you reason from the position that God is the authority to the position that He's not?" Well something didn’t make sense to me. As a Christian, if there’s something we don’t understand, and there’s lots of things in Scripture I don’t understand, what are we supposed to do? Proverbs 3:5 and 6, “Lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.” They say: “I’m not a Christian anymore because of this evidence.” Indicates they were never Christians. What do we as Christians do? We try to repair that evidence. They say, “Well I’m not a Christian anymore because the Bible says this.” Oh let me tell you, what the Bible really says here. “Oh I’m not a Christian, because I don’t believe that dinosaurs walked with man.” Well look we have these fossils here… and we try and repair that evidence, and let’s say you repair all of that evidence, and where do you bring them back to? The position where they weren’t Christians. Congratulations. They want evidence of a talking donkey.
They want evidence for a dead man who came back to life. If you deny the God of the Bible, that is nuts. I can’t give you evidence that a man was in a fish for three days. It’s not our job as Christians to prove miracles. We're trying to get them to see the truth, with evidences and arguments so that they'll repent. But what does the Bible say? 2nd Timothy 2:25 “In the hope that God grants them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." Repentance comes before a knowledge of the truth. These people have to repent of their sin against the God they know exists for any of that to make sense. I’m not gonna waste my time trying to prove that a donkey talked, trying to prove that Noah got all these animals on the ark. If you deny God, that is crazy, but with God, for the creator of the universe, that’s nothing. They need to repent of their sin against that God before they can understand any of it. We’re not arguing for Christianity tonight. We’re not trying to disprove Allah’s existence. We are arguing for generic monotheism that is affirmed by Jews, Christians, Muslims,
deists, theists of many sorts. Anthony Flew is known is the world’s most notorious atheist. He became a deist. This is what success looks like when you give the unbeliever evidence – you get deists. Big deal. This is not success, but you might have a lot of deists, walking this earth, that Christians are slapping them on the back because they say there is "a god." You know who else believes there’s "a god?" Satan. He doesn’t only believe there’s "a god," he believes in THE God. It’s not helping him any. Why do you have a morality for this Christian God and not any other "god" which would have less disgusting morals? If you weren’t so emotionally wrapped up in this, you would notice that my argument tonight was not for the Christian God. But you did mention over and over again, Jesus and Christian salvation. In answer to questions, but my talk said nothing about Christian... Why do you personally, as someone who is... Now look The argument that I gave tonight for theism, right? Theism, is a generic argument for I said, a personal supreme being, that’s consistent
with Judaism, Islam, Christianity, certain forms of Hinduism, uh, deism. I haven’t presented an argument, a moral argument, for Christianity or even for the God of the Bible, so you ought to rejoice in my argument tonight and just say I'm going to be a theist but I’m not gonna be a Biblical theist. So that’s evidential apologetics where you’re studying evidences, Now, what I am is a presuppositionalist. We all get the same evidence. We get the same evidence as the unbeliever but we interpret the evidence according to what we already believe. We interpret the evidence according to what we already believe, and what are the beliefs that we already have before we get to the evidence? Those are our pre-beliefs, our presuppositions. We interpret all the evidence according to our pre-beliefs, according to our presuppositions. It makes no sense to attack the evidence when they’re gonna evaluate it according to what they already believe. Now I have a dear friend of mine, Dustin Segers, and he's another presuppositionalist and he
was out on a campus in North Carolina and a philosophy student came up to him and she said, “I would like some evidence for the resurrection.” And he said, “You can’t account for evidence, repent fool!" [laughter] Anybody who knows Dustin knows he would never say anything like that. [laughter] See Dustin loves the people that he’s engaging. He loves them! She wasn’t asking him to defend the truth of what he believed. She wanted evidence for the resurrection. Dustin, a presuppositionalist, what did he do? Gave her evidence. Gave her evidence for the resurrection and Dustin has a photographic memory. And you know all the evidences, the Roman guards, their responsibilities, the empty tomb, the female witnesses. Boom! boom! boom! He was just hitting her with all this evidence, and ya know what? Took a while. Dustin convinced her that Jesus rose from the dead. Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Right? You know what she said? “You convinced me that this man rose from the dead, but you didn’t prove that He’s God.
She had a presupposition she brought to the argument that the supernatural doesn’t exist. If you prove a supernatural event to someone who doesn’t believe in the supernatural, they’re just gonna file it. “Someday we'll have a reason why that body came back to life in the mean time, send it to Ripley’s Believe It Or Not.” This is a story I’m sure many of you heard already, about a man who thought he was dead. He thought he was dead, and it really upset his family because this guy, in his house, thought he was dead and they tried every argument they could to convince this guy that he was not dead Nothing worked. And they thought, “Okay, we’ll take him to a medical doctor. A medical doctor will be able to convince this man that he’s not dead.” So they take him to a medical doctor, and the doctor thinks for a bit and he goes, “Hmmm, do dead men bleed?” And the guy thought for a minute and he said, “Um, no, their hearts aren’t pumping, there’s no blood going through their veins. No! Dead men don’t bleed!” Doctor took out a pin stuck him in the finger, blood starts coming out, the guy goes, "Well what do you know! Dead men do bleed!” [Laughter] See and that’s the problem, we’ll evaluate stuff according to what we already believe.
If you don’t deal with their pre-suppositions, that’s what you’re gonna get. Tenth Avenue North with “Losing” here on WOW 90.9. Good morning, I’m Jeff. In the studio with me we’ve got Eric Hovind. Eric, we’ve had you in here before, good morning! Thanks, good morning Jeff, great to be here! And we’ve got Sye Burgencut? Ten Bruggencate. Ten Bruggencate. There's ten of 'em. I just totally butchered that. There's a test on that. Alright, so Eric, introduce Sye. Who's Sye? Hey, my friend Sye here is from proofthatgodexists.org a ministry based up in Canada and they’re actually doing a documentary, and we had the privilege last night of doing a debate with the president of the American Atheist Association, David Silverman. What’s interesting and I’m sure we’ll talk about this on the show, what’s interesting is they may, they may seem incredibly intellectual. Yeah. But then they will admit, that they could be wrong about everything, which undermines their entire position. Oh yeah. now, you gotta save that for the next part - Okay - cause that was a huge deal last night I’ll let Sye talk about that. Sye got very excited about that Sye really put David Silverman in tough spot. Without further ado, I would like to welcome everyone to the show. First of all we have someone by the name of David Silverman.
He’s actually the president of the American Atheist Association, and he is joining us tonight and I would like for him to say hello. Hello everybody! Nice to meet you - nice to see you! Thank you for having me on the show. It’s wonderful to have you, David, and I’m hoping that we can answer the question and I’m sure it’s going to be very much variegated tonight. The topic is: “Is church harmful?” And also the other thing that’s like false about religion is the morals, and like, morality among people is always changing, like religion before, it like would, tell us that interracial marriages weren’t right, but like that was like totally immoral, but like our morality changes as we move on, as generations go on, as science develops, so like, religion is not sufficient enough ,to hold onto like, the changing values that we have as a people. Okay, so you’re telling me basically that religion is false. No, it’s not sufficient enough. No, no, but, the thing is you, you brought up the term false in your analogy – yeah - you say these things that they believe are false.
So you believe in a concept of truth and falsehood, correct? No, I don’t think that anything is right, we don’t know - You don’t think that anything’s You don't think anything is right? You don't think anything is true? Even science is all theory. Hang on a second; you don’t think anything’s true? Yeah. Is that true? I’d just like to know, from Mr. Silverman, if he could be wrong about everything he claims to know. If I could be - I could wake up in the matrix tomorrow… See now that’s not… Is it possible? Look, look, look, when you’re getting into this when you use the word, “know” in that sense, you’re using two definitions at the same time, okay? I could wake up in the Matrix tomorrow okay. "The Matrix" could be true! I can’t prove it's not. Ah, I could wake up in the movie tomorrow, and then oh my goodness, reality has changed, that could happen. Do I know with 100% certainty that, that’s not going to happen? No, I don’t. Does that mean "The Matrix" is actually plausible? No, it doesn’t. You’re a cop in this one cop town you're the only cop, alright? Every Friday night you get a call from the local pub, Bob the drunk is drunk again.
So you go down to the local pub, sure enough, Bob the town drunk, he's drunk again. You pick him up, you pour him into your cruiser, and you take him to your station to sleep it off overnight. It’s just a small station, you know, good enough for one person, you put him in there to sleep it off Friday night, and as is your standard, because ya know, it’s a small town, you take your cruiser home for the night, take it home to your wife, you know. Then you go back Saturday morning cause he’s sobered up, to let him out. On the way back to the station, you stop at the dry cleaner cause you had some uniforms in there that were clean and pressed. You hang them in the back of your cruiser. Now you go to the station, Bob is sobered up. You get him to sign the paperwork, you release him for the day. But it's Saturday morning, you’re all the way back at the station, so you go upstairs to do some paperwork, and you’re working on that paperwork till around noon and you figure oh, it’s time to go You go downstairs, you go outside, and your cruiser is missing, but it’s such a small town you figure, oh its probably those Baker boys, those rascals, they took it, they’re gonna bring it back. That’s how small this town is, and you’re not worried about it. You don’t call it in. You happen to have a bicycle at the station because you’re an avid cyclist,
and you figure, ah, I’ll take my bike home today. So you take off your uniform you put on your yellow spandex outfit, your helmet with the little mirror on it, ya know. You go on your ten-speed bike and you start going down the highway, and you hear a siren, getting pulled over, by a cruiser, your cruiser. Out steps Bob, wearing your neatly cleaned and pressed uniform. Comes up to you and says, “Mister, you were speeding.” I know with 100% certainty that God doesn't exist. I know that with exactly the same certainty that I know that Santa Claus doesn’t exist. Now, if Santa Claus lands on my roof, I’ll believe. Do I think that’s gonna happen? No. But you see the contradiction though when you say that you could be wrong about everything you claim to know and then you say you can know things for certain, and let me explain that if you don’t mind… That’s because “for certain” is a relative term for certain is… Well, the problem is you could be wrong about that, that’s the problem. Sye, can I make a comment here?
is wrong… taking away the possibility that we could be, you know, in some sort of dream, that we could just think up, that we could just dream up. We have knowledge. We know things, and I know things, and so do you. How do you know anything and let's take as a generic knowledge claim, the letter “A.” How do I know “A?” What’s the answer? Well because of “B.” How do I know I’m sitting here, well my eyes are telling me. How do I know my eyes are working properly? Well I went to an eye doctor and he checked ‘em up, gave me a good, clean bill of health. So because of “C, “ I know “A”, because of “B”, because of “C.” How do I know “C?” Well because of “D.” How do I know “D?” Because of “E.” You know where that ends? Not at the end of the alphabet. It doesn’t end; it’s an infinite regress. I know “A” because of “B” because of “C” because of “D” on and on and on and on. So in order to know anything at all, you would have to have infinite knowledge. You would have to end that infinite regress. The only way to do that is with infinite knowledge. Who has infinite knowledge? I don’t. You don’t. Who has infinite knowledge? God has infinite knowledge?
So in order to know anything at all, you would have to know everything, or have revelation from someone who does. That is the Christian worldview. I say if you reject that, then you cannot justify even one knowledge claim. We know the temperature. We know the ground is solid. We know there’s a tree. We know that building’s made of half concrete, I mean… Okay, so… Yeah these are all little, different truths, we can’t argue that they are not truths we just know they exist. Okay, so to know truth, hang on, this guy, he’s making a good point. My thing is though, I don’t need to be born, I don’t need to know God… Hang on a second. I don’t need any of that. No, hey, I am speaking. Right. I don’t need to know any of that to… Can I show you why you do? No, I mean you can… Can I show you why you do? You can try but you won’t. Okay, so in order to know things you’re employing your senses and your reasoning, right? You say "I know there’s a tree there, I know the ground is solid, I know these things to be self-evident truths." You’re employing your senses and your reasoning, correct? Yes. How do you know your sense and your reasoning are valid? The same way you…
Hang on! Because they…they are valid. Okay, would you agree that there's people on this earth who have invalid senses and reasoning? Yes. How would they know if they're invalid? Well, after a while they find out, they take the color blind test, they're like oh [expletive] everything's not black and white. So they would need valid reasoning to find out that their reasoning is invalid? Sorry, what? They would need valid reasoning to find out that their reasoning is invalid. If there’s people who have invalid reasoning, how do you know you’re not one of those people? Because... [Voice in background] Cause his reasoning is valid because yours is invalid. I mean we are given truth. They read their things - we all agree on as humans. Pretty much we all agree on them. So truth is by consensus? Yeah. So if everybody agreed that God exists, it would make it true that God exists? Ah, if everybody… If everybody agreed that the moon was made of green cheese, the moon would be made of green cheese? Yeah! You’re borrowing from my worldview because it says in Scripture, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,” and if you admit that you could be wrong about everything you claim to know, then you’ve given up knowledge, and I’ll explain why that is. Let’s say somebody asked what was the... But Sye, before we...
Well, let me finish, I think that we were told that we weren't going to cut each other off Okay, hold on, hold on. Wouldn’t you mind if I could finish? Okay, just a minute, hold on. And I was trying to explain that at that point he gave up knowledge but they cut me off for another 15 minutes and I finally got back to talk to them about that and I said, "This is how I explain that” and I say “Let’s say someone asked me the speed of the road outside the building where we’re at now,” and I said it was 40 miles per hour but I could be wrong. Do I know it? No I don’t. So when that fellow says I could be wrong about everything I claim to know, he’s given up knowledge, and that’s what we say, unless you start with God, you can’t know anything and at that point, you get further to go into the Gospel that you’ve exposed that you need Jesus Christ, cause Jesus Christ did not only die to save souls for eternity, He died to save reasoning now. Because it’s a fallacy, it’s self-refuting to say “I could be wrong about everything I claim to know,” cause you could be wrong about that too. When you say that you could be wrong about everything you claim to know, you’ve given up knowledge to ANY degree. Now if he says that he can be certain about things, then I would ask him how he could be certain about things. He would have to employ his senses and reasoning, and I’d ask him how he knows they are valid, and if he could be wrong about everything he claims to know he can’t know that they are valid,
and that’s the problem. Mister, you were speeding! Now folks that is an apologetic situation. How do some people answer? Throw down their bicycle, run into the bush; “I don’t like dealing with the police. I don’t like arguing with people.” Other people? “Oh man, nice day isn’t it? Do you want to come to our pizza social Friday night?” Or they give evidence. Look there’s no way I could have been speeding. The speed on this road is 55 Miles an hour. The land speed record for this type of bicycle is 45 miles an hour. Look at my skinny legs. There’s no way I could have been speeding on that bicycle. Look at the gearing ratio, this bike can’t do 55 miles an hour! I happen to know the land speed record for this type of bicycle on a flat surface, with this much head wind is only 45 miles an hour, and the speed on this road is 55. I happen to know a lot about the radar in that cruiser, it can't even pick up bicycles, there’s not enough metal in them. [Laughter] And you win the argument! What does Bob say?
“Oh man, you’re right, you couldn’t have been speeding! I’m sorry, have a nice day!” Gets back in your cruiser, drives off. [Laughter] What’s the problem? It’s not your cruiser, it’s not your uniform, it belongs to the government. Monday morning you’ve taken your bike back to the station and the district chief shows up: “Where’s your cruiser?” “Well, Bob pulled me over in it on Saturday but I won the argument.” “Where is your cruiser?” What’s your boss gonna say? Neglect of duty! Neglect of duty. I don’t want God to say that to any of you. Thankfully Jesus Christ has washed us away from even our bad apologetic encounters, but now that you have been equipped I hope that you go out and when the unbeliever comes and confronts you, picture them in your uniform which isn’t yours, next to your cruiser, which isn’t yours and ask for some I.D. Tackle the guy... well not tackle them but you know, say “I’m sorry, you’re not a Cop!" I’m not giving you that authority.”
I’m just talking, I’m not gonna talk about like things, I’m just talking, your argument right now is so, just circular, the whole time, you ask… Is circular reasoning fallacious sir? You ask the same three questions or five... We’ll move it on! That’s fair, people have heard this before. He’s talking about circular reasoning now. Why is circular reasoning wrong? Because you alter, you… by circular reasoning you are making things sound true that aren’t true. You’re altering ideas, you’re altering… Well we weren’t talking about truth anymore now, sir, we’ve already agreed on that. Sorry. You’re altering whatever, you’re altering all these things, and what we’re saying to make it sound, to make it go with your argument, that’s wrong. It’s wrong? Yes! Well we’re not talking about truth anymore sir, now, we’re talking about logic. I am not having a logical argument. If somebody accuses you of vicious circularity, what are they doing? See, and now we’re back to the one cop town. The person standing there in, your uniform and next to your cruiser. They’re bringing a logical argument against you. They’re accusing you of circularity. Who owns logic?
Jesus Christ. They can’t bring a logical argument against me. They say: “Your argument is circular.” What’s wrong with that? Where do you get logic that forbids circularity in your worldview? Greg, that interjected as well, I’d like to ask him that question just to get that on record. Could you be wrong about everything you claim to know? Again, I have, I know where you’re going with this. and I believe I addressed everything is that yes, we all can be wrong about everything that we claim to know, including you and Eric, but you’re inserting God in as a virtuous circle into – okay - your circular arguments. Now here, now let me just… I’m just trying to address it before it comes up because it’s a big sidetrack that we can get caught up in quite some time. Right But before we go on though, when you say you could be wrong about everything you claim to know, you said, "yes," the very next thing out of your mouth was a knowledge claim about me, and if you could be wrong about everything you claim to know, then you can’t know what I can know. You’ve given up knowledge so any further discussion tonight, presupposes my worldview,
because you would have to be intellectually dishonest to say that... That's ridiculous… No, it doesn’t follow… Well we're gonna allow us to finish our thoughts right? Yeah, let’s finish the sentence. You’d have to be intellectually dishonest to claim that an all-knowing, all-powerful being could not reveal things to us such that we could know them for certain. So according to my worldview, I can have certainty and the two of you have denied knowledge, you’ve given up knowledge, so really any further discussion is going to be based on the truth of my worldview. And I have proof that God exists. You know the proof that God exists? What would that be? The proof that God exists is that without Him you can't prove anything. Because the thing is people say, “Give me proof that God exists.” The proof that God exists is that without him you can't know anything, but people know things. You know, but they reject Him, and the thing is the Bible says: “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.” And when you reject God, you can’t account for anything you claim to know. And I asked these people: “Could you be wrong about everything you claim to know? and they said: “Yes I could.” and that’s exactly what the Bible says. You’ve just given up knowledge. I said: “But you can’t live that way, you’re at a university where you come to know things. That fellow said: “I’ve come to get closer to the truth,” and I said, “What is truth without God?” He had no answer. He’s here to get closer to the truth because he knows the truth.
He's suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. What’s your truth? Truth is… What’s your truth? I don’t - Sir, "your truth" is a fallacy. I’m asking you about yours; we’re not talking about me, it’s about you. You're on the stage, what’s your truth? “Your truth" is a fallacy… What's your truth? I don’t have a truth, sir. You have no truth? Your life is perfect. What is THE truth? THE truth is whatever conforms to the mind of God. Are you saying that you believe in evolution sir? Of course, I do, its scientifically proven. You believe that your thoughts are the by-product of your evolved brain? Yes, hundred percent. Okay, if I got a bottle of Mountain Dew and a bottle of Dr. Pepper, and I shook them up, and I opened them and they’d start to fizz, that fizz would be the by-product of a chemical reaction, right? Sure. Would it make sense to call one of those fizzes true and one of those fizzes false? You see, I, I, no. It wouldn’t make sense, you’re right! You know why? Because it just is, its brain fizz. But if our thoughts are just brain fizz, you can’t call something true and false. No, that’s, that’s different. Chemical reactions are different, one chemical reaction is completely different - That’s right! - than a bottle of soda. But our thoughts are the by-product of a chemical reactions in the evolutionary worldview.
Yeah, I believe that they are. How do you get truth from that? Scientifically. Where do you get truth from chemical reactions? There is no truth, is that true, sir? What if there isn’t? What if there isn’t? It’s absurd to hypothesize that there is no truth, cause the question assumes truth. People ask me how do I know that this Bible is true? I’ll tell ya, I know this Bible is true because if you reject it ,you can’t make sense of your question. I am going to arrogantly assert that it’s absolutely impossible that I am wrong about everything I know. I think that it is an absolutely absurd impossibility. I know that I exist, I can’t possibly be wrong about that; it’s just not even possible. I know that my experience, even if inaccurately perceived is still nonetheless absolutely my experience, and I know that, and I know that absolutely. When we go from, can you be absolutely certain about everything to you can't be absolutely certain about anything, you have made a jump of logic there that is horrendous.
When you claim that you know that you exist are you using Descartes’ syllogism there? I think therefore I am. No. How do you know that you exist then? Because my own consciousness I… But you realize you’re begging the question when you say, “my own.” When you say “my own” you’re begging the question. You’re assuming that you exist when you say "my own consciousness." You’re assuming existence and you're begging the question. Just as you said he was assuming your worldview for you to even tell me that I’m assuming that I exist is an acknowledgement that I exist. Right, but the thing is I can make sense of that... You couldn’t assume that I exist unless I did. Right I can make sense of your existence according to my worldview, I’m asking you how you make sense of your existence according to your worldview. Let me ask you about your worldview, Sye. Well, you’re actually out of this discussion because you said you could be wrong about everything you claim to know, so I’m dealing with the person who claims certainty.” Hold on, hold on, hold on for a minute, hold on. One of the things I don't want to happen, hold on, hold on guys, hold on, hello… Yeah, so really the debate was over right there, and then what we did is we just continued to point out every time they would say, “Yes church is harmful because…
and they’ve done…” and all you have to do is... - but you could be wrong - yeah, is say: ""But you could be wrong.” Yeah. That undermines their entire argument. Yeah. Well needless to say. They got tired of it. They don’t like that. The problem behind Christianity really is that they not only claim the stories to be true, but that they claim the stories to be perfect, and when science discovers, that those ancient myths are wrong, what Christian religion often does is dig their heels in and say, “ no, no, no, our book is perfect.” When they start saying that they’re perfect, when they start saying that science is wrong, they’ve taken a step further, they’ve actually gone from spreading a lie, to spreading ignorance. They’ve actually got people convinced that evolution didn’t happen. We know it did, it’s absolutely proven - 100% proven, Sye, by the way.
But you could be wrong about that. Yes, we can be sure about that. No, you said you could be wrong about everything, so you could be wrong about that, correct? Sye, I was inter... I was speaking when you were interrupting. Ya, I realize that, but we are allowed to interact so continue. Yes, so, uh, it's beyond just spreading lies, it’s beyond just spreading the lie that God exists, that there’s a man in the sky, but now the Christian church specifically has said, “no, no, no, that which we know, that which we have learned to be true, that which we have proven true is wrong, what really happened is that Noah sailed down to Antarctica to put the penguins back.” It’s beyond the grotesque stories as morality and claiming it to be good, and it’s into the realm of interfering with the progress of the American people and that’s wrong. Can I explain the issue with this? Yes. It’s that when you bring up biblical stories like that, you’re assuming a standard of
morality which is above or outside of the Bible, and I’m saying outside of Scripture you don’t have a standard of morality by which you can judge those things. Now these are great questions for a Bible study, but I don’t do Bible studies with atheists. I do Bible studies with Christians who go on the authority of God’s Word. Why would you not do a Bible study with an atheist? Because we’re talking about the word of God here, and somebody who’s given up knowledge… Why would you not do a Bible study with an atheist? I will proclaim the truth of Scripture to an atheist, but when somebody says, “I could be wrong about everything I claim to know,” I’m not gonna study the Bible with them cause they could be wrong about that and it's senseless. Do you think that Jesus ignored the atheists? Oh I don’t think he ignored them at all, He preached the Gospel to them. But did he eat with the sinners and drink with the sinners and… Right, well we're here. wash their feet, bow before them. Right, but let’s get back to the topic at hand, these things that you call immoral, and when people say these things were immoral of God, you know that's exactly what happened in the garden of Eden. What did Adam and Eve do? They said: “Well God said this, Satan said this, I’m gonna decide,” and that’s exactly what people are doing today when they judge God in Scripture, and I say if you don’t
like those things that happened in Scripture, if you’re an unbeliever and you die in your sin stick around! But the point is you’re introducing... So you’re response is a threat? Your response to die is… No, it’s a warning. It's a warning. Come on, tell me how we’re supposed to learn morality, Sye, from an immoral book. You know morality. What is your standard by which you call anything immoral? I know bears ripping apart children is immoral, and I’m willing to go way out on a limb and say it's bad… Based Based on what standard? Based on what standard, Mr. Silverman? Based on my standard. And you could be wrong about that? No, I can’t. Well, thanks for contradicting yourself yet again. Sye, I have a question for you. Go ahead. Oh wait a minute, you’ve given up knowledge, sorry, we’re done with you. Well, I’m asking you the question though, so my knowledge isn't important, it’s only you. You are the source of absolute knowledge here, according to your worldview, or you have access to it, and I’d like to know how you know that? How do I know that? Yes - God makes me know. God makes you know that God exists?
The thing is, do you know how I can know things for certain? And I’ll explain this to you, and it's going to be, you know, maybe a quite a big revelation to you. How I know things for certain? The same way you do, because we all know this God that exists, and you have to have all knowledge or revelation from a God who has all knowledge, to know anything or you could be wrong about everything you claim to know and you’ve given up knowledge... How do you know that? and that’s what’s happened tonight. Well, as Christians we know things by and through revelation from God. You see, I can use my senses and reasoning to come to knowledge cause I know that I'm created in the image of God. I know that he’s given me the ability to know things through my senses and reasoning. People will say: “Well, you need your senses to read Scripture.” Yeah, well I say: “Can’t God use my senses and reasoning to reveal things to me through Scripture? Sure he can, and if you can’t know anything, you have no objection to that. These people know that God exists. That’s what Romans 1 says, but they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. They’re suppressing the truth. What do you have to have in order to suppress the truth? You have to have the truth. I know for certain that if I were to walk up there, and I were to blast you in the face
with my right hand. Right. Instantly your eyes would fill with tears, blood would pour… and it –right - would be very real to you. Okay. Whether or not anybody else wants to say it’s in a Matrix that’s fine… Right. but I assure you it will be extremely real… Okay And I know that, that would hurt, because I’ve had it done – right - to me. Sir, I asked you for one thing you know and you made a knowledge claim about the future. You said: “If I go and do this, this will happen.” I want to know how you know the future. Cause and effect. Okay, now, the thing is, do you know what people say to me, because it always been like that in the past. I know the future because of the past, and that’s a fallacy sir. I would just say "Do it." That's not a fallacy, I mean... There are some things you can’t predict. That’s "begging the question" and I’ll explain why that’s a fallacy, cause if you say, “I know the future because of the past, guess what, you’ve just proven I’m never gonna die, cause I’ve never died in the past. Hang on. Other people have died. Right, and I’m a lot like those other people except for one thing, I’ve never died. So I can say based on the past, it’s ridiculous!
What I want you to do is imagine a town called “Lotto Town.” Ten thousand people in this town, and every day they have a lottery, and everybody in this town gets a ticket. Imagine on day 1, certain person wins the lottery. Imagine on day 2, same person wins the lottery. Imagine on day 3, the same person wins the lottery. At this point the atheist says: “I’d say something’s up, something’s been rigged.” I say: “Oh, you’re a “riggest,” but when the sun comes up everyday you’re an "a-riggest." You think it just happens that way? How come in the lottery example you’re a “riggest,” but in the world you’re an "a-riggest?" You don’t believe in God whose controlling the universe. See in order to do science, you’re borrowing from the Christian worldview, cause you can’t even do science unless you start with God. “For the earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof.” Who owns science? Who owns logic? Who owns morality? Jesus Christ! We don’t give them to the unbeliever so they could argue against our worldview. Well, then let’s get back to my question; What is your ultimate authority? Uh, I, I... Are you really asking.
No, I’m asking Dr. Jones. Okay, uh, I can’t say that I have an ultimate authority. Well, what is your final arbiter as to what is true in Scripture? I can answer it. Well, I’d like to ask Dr. Jones cause he’s making a lot of knowledge claims about Scripture… Well I... and I’d like to know what his ultimate standard is. Just a minute, one of the things that I would avoid first of all, is the idea of calling is Scripture. That’s fine, what is your ultimate authority? I think that has an extreme bias, number one. I would simply say, “I can’t honestly say, we have enough indexical, and deictic elements, within the read itself to say x, y, and z about most of it.” And so when you claim that it is your authority, I would ask you to provide me with the indexicality, and deictic elements that are necessary to have a meaningful understanding of it. Please provide that. Is it true that that's necessary? Is it true that that’s necessary?
It’s true that it’s necessary - okay now what - if you are to understand x, y or z about any linguistic mindset because without linguistic and nonlinguistic elements you can go nowhere and you can make no claim whether it be knowledge x, y, or z – okay – and so you’re trying to pontificate an issue of knowledge without having knowledge of how this actually works. That makes absolutely no sense – but you- So I’m asking for indexicality and I’m - Right - asking for deictic elements of the text and I’m simply all ears here. Please provide me with them. Well, you’ve made a truth claim and you’ve said that you have no ultimate standard, so when you say that it’s true that this is required, I’d like to know what is the standard by which you call anything true? See, I think you’re dancing, I think you’re playing a shell game, I think you’re avoiding… I realize that, but I think it’s clear for the people that are watching it. Well, if you’re trying to move these people emotionally, you’re doing a wonderful job. No I’m not trying to move them emotionally. I’m simply asking you questions that you can’t answer, you can’t give me… I don’t understand your questions. Well, that’s what I’m saying. Can I try to re-state the questions in a different… in more laymen’s English?
You could but you’ve already said you could be wrong about everything you claim to know, so it would really be pointless. Again, I’m only asking you these questions Sye. Let’s not play that game. You’re not asking me, okay that’s fine. I’m sorry we’ve got to stop with this cheap trick of “You could be wrong.” It’s old and we need to move on. You’re disrespecting our host… Okay. Thanks for your time. Okay, thank you get off the stage. So, I mean basically they were saying: “Hey Sye, you can’t use that argument – stop.” You know, basically this is a powerful weapon, and they’re saying: “Put down you’re powerful weapon. Put down your atomic bomb to our worldview,” and Sye’s going... Well, you going into a discussion, they have a pea shooter, you bring a gun, and they’re saying: “No you can’t use that gun. You know that gun is a nuisance. I don’t like that gun.” So what do most Christians do? They throw it away. Say: “Okay” or they give it to the unbeliever. Yeah. Say: “Here you can have knowledge, you can have truth, you can have logic, you can have all these things that belong to Jesus Christ and you can use them to argue against Jesus Christ." I will not allow that. I will not allow the unbeliever to use the weapons of Jesus Christ to argue against the Lord that I adore. Now if you argue with an unbeliever, assuming that they can know things without God, you've lost before you’ve started.
You see, it’s like getting in the unbeliever’s airplane, you can talk about whatever you want, You can even win the argument, but you’re going to the unbeliever’s destination. Don’t get on that plane. Don’t give up your authority. Why, why did he do that? [Clapping] Well it’s… the problem is, it’s not a cheap trick. The problem is you’ve got somebody who’s denied knowledge and now wants to make knowledge claims You got somebody that’s asking you: “What’s your ultimate authority” and you’re saying: “I don’t have one.” Jesus when He sent out His disciples, He said: “Go and make disciples of all nations.” That’s not what He said: “Go THEREFORE and make disciples of all nations.” Something had to come before that; “Go therefore.” “All authority in Heaven and on Earth has been given unto Me, go THEREFORE and make disciples." We forget the beginning. We forget that Jesus is the authority, but we deny that and we try to argue for His authority. Who’s the authority in these books, in these arguments? It’s not Jesus Christ, its man. See we try and argue for the authority of Jesus Christ, but we deny it when we do it.
We’re not arguing for Christianity tonight. Let’s not believe in the authority of the Bible, merely because the Bible claims to be true. And we’re not gonna use the Bible to show you that evidence. My argument tonight was not for the Christian God. What can you not use to prove that the Bible’s true? [audience] The Bible. The Bible! You cannot argue for Christianity by giving up Christianity. [Laughs] And we can have certainty if there was - How? - an all-knowing being in the science community. That’s right. We could. That’s right, now are you gonna say that you have to posit a "god" to have certainty?” What? Are you saying that the only way you can have certainty is to posit a being that can give you certainty? Is that the only way? No. That's not what I'm saying. Okay, how can you have certainty then? Because I am certain in myself. So you are certain in yourself. Just like you are certain in yourself that God exists. No, no, no, the thing is I ‘m appealing to an infallible, all-knowing being. You're appealing to yourself, - I'm app... - and you don’t know if you’re in "The Matrix" or not. How do you know I’m not an infallible being? You've admitted that. Okay now see now this is very interesting See what happens when people reject God, they make themselves God. Now he’s saying: “How do you know I’m not an infallible being?
Not only does he reject God, he elevates himself to the position of God. Let’s get back to the reasoning argument. You’re saying that my reasoning is the reason why this stuff doesn’t work. No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. You’re saying that I can’t be certain of anything because it’s based on my own reasoning, but you can’t be certain God exists because you reading the Bible - Listen - is based on your own reasoning. You just said I can have certainty, right? I just said you have certainty if you know God exists – right - but the fact that you think God exists is based on your own reasoning. Okay, so nobody can have certainty? Nobody can have certainty. Are you certain of that? And I’m certain of it. Thanks a lot guys. You just proved yourself wrong. You just proved that you’re a hypocrite [Sye Laughing] - You've just proved... You’ve got the cameramen laughing. Yeah I know, show these people the video. Nobody can have certainty, and I’m certain of that! Exactly, because… The absurdity of atheism guys. You know why you know things, because you know that God exists, and you’re suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. You need to repent. You see we’re not talking about the complexity of the eye here, we’re destroying worldviews, and that’s why I tell people: "Don’t be a jerk about it." You know, this is the example I give.
I say, let’s there’s a - the unbeliever’s like an airplane going through the air and you’re firing holes in their worldview. That airplane is coming down. And if you’re a jerk about it, they’re not coming to you to talk to about the Gospel. They’re ditching in Lake Hindu, or in Lake Scientology, but you want them to come to you and tell them, why their worldview is absurd; Because they don’t start with Jesus Christ. I don’t believe I’m gonna go to hell. I don’t know if I’m gonna go to heaven, but, you know, I, I, like I said, I live in a world of “I don’t know.” Do you know that you live in that world? No. You don’t know that you live in the world of “I don’t know?” I don’t know. Who knows we could all be in the matrix right now. Is that true? Do you know that? No, I don’t know anything. You don’t know anything at all? I don’t know a thing. You don't know - Do you know that you don’t know a thing? See this is all just kinda… this is… It’s nonsense isn’t it? It’s nonsense. And that’s what happens when you reject God. Cause it says: “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.” But the thing is I know you know things. I know that you know you got dressed. You put your pants on one leg at a time, you’re standing here. I know that you know these things, but the thing is you have reduce yourself to an absurdity
to reject the God that you know exists. Hmmm. Okay See, and that’s the option, and that’s what I’m presenting today, the options: God or absurdity, and do you know what you’re saying? I chose absurdity. Everybody wants a method, a methodology for this apologetic and I say, well, I’ll give you a method. It’s the two move checkmate. No matter what the person says that disagrees with Scripture; First move: "That’s not what the Bible says." No matter what the objection is. That’s why this apologetic drives you back to Scripture. No matter what they say, think of any objection that you hear out on the street… You believe in Noah’s Ark? Are you kidding me? All those animals on that boat? What, you believe in a talking donkey? You don’t believe the flood? No. So you don’t believe the Bible’s true? No. What do most Christians do? Well the Ark was so many cubits, it was so many floors, they’re probably baby animals, and there’s plenty of room because there were only so many kinds of animals at the time, plenty of room to fit them all on the Ark. Evidence! Evidence! Evidence! You’re making them the judge.
That evidence is wonderful, it’s Scriptural, it’s for Christians, but I don’t do that. Someone says to me: “You believe in Noah’s ark?” I say: “Yeah.” I say: “You don’t?” “No.” “You don’t believe that it’s true?” “No.” “Where do you get truth without God?” And then you see the absurdity. Where do you get truth without God? That’s not what the Bible says. Where do you get truth without God? And it’s over. And that works for ANY objection to Scripture. Oh. Okay. [Laughter] She wanted to be here so bad. How ya doing? I want to apologize to you. I lost my cool. Are you a Christian? I am, yeah. So, I’m just curious as to why you stopped me? It felt to me a little bit like uhh, I know you are but what am I? My logic was this: We have a show to put on and it has to move on. The atheists have to be able to to be a part of the conversation and they can’t be insulted - right - every time they speak. Well the thing is, I didn’t’ insult them. Well I think they felt insulted. Well they felt insulted, of course because their worldview was demolished. That’s why they felt insulted. That's a subjective view. Right, I mean... Well they denied knowledge and made knowledge claims, that’s why they were insulted.
And that’s why - you see the thing is they wouldn’t be insulted if I talked with them - if I elevate them to the position of judge, they won’t be insulted, but then God will be insulted, and I would rather insult them than God. We have a two hour discussion to have – you can’t end it by getting them to admit that they don’t know anything at the beginning and then just keep reminding them of that... Sure I can. Well, you can but you’re going to drive lots of people crazy. - That's my worldview. I understand that, however I'd rather drive you crazy, than insult the Lord that I adore. I’m not here to please you. I’m here to please my Lord. And you felt you did that? You think I should have entertained them - lift them to the position of judge? I think that if we’re condescending to atheists they’ll never listen to us. I wasn’t condescending to them. It was very condescending. Can you explain that to me? I, I... You believe that they believe in God and are just denying it. That’s what Scripture says. Well, well, that is what your translation of Scripture says. Okay can you translate Romans 1, when it says they're without excuse; can you explain how you translate that to saying that… Who, who is the “they?” “They,” is unbelievers.
What do they not believe? They profess unbelief in God. So when Paul said “they”, when he was talking about unbelievers, who is he talking about when he wrote that letter. He was talk... Was he talking about atheists? He was talking about anybody who denies that God exists. Who was the letter to? Well, okay, let me ask you this question first of all: What is your ultimate standard of truth? Is it Scripture? No, it is not. Okay, well then you’re not a Christian. Okay, well so can we have a conversation? We can have a conversation however I will have to treat you as an unbeliever. Okay but if we look at Paul as a piece of literature, can we do that? No, absolutely not. I will not out the Word of God up to you to determine whether it’s true or not. Now if I ask you the question, who is Paul writing that letter to… Okay now since you deny Scripture as your ultimate authority, what is the standard of truth by which you will judge my answer? I will judge you by Paul’s authority. No, no, no no. No, no. The thing is... Yes. Cause Paul... What is your standard of authority by which you will determine what I say is true or not? Paul. Yourself. Paul.
Well, Paul’s dead. But he wrote the letter. Well.. He's the author. Okay, how do you know that? It says: “Paul the Apostle.” Yeah I realize that but how do you know that? What’s your standard of truth? Because I've read it. You read it, so you’re the standard of truth? We’re talking about a piece of literature where it says “Paul the Apostle to the Romans.” Right. So you have made a determination that you’re the fundamental arbiter of what is true and what is false. Is that correct? I’m saying Paul wrote a piece of literature – right - can we understand it as English speaking people? Can we understand this English translation? I am saying that that discussion takes place among Christians, not among people who cannot account for truth or knowledge – and - that’s for a Bible study. And you’re the judge of who a Christian is? I’m not a judge of who a Christian is, Scripture is! The way you interpret Scripture is. No, not the way I - Scripture is the judge. Certainly. Certainly. I’m saying that truth is Scripture. It’s how your interpretation of Scripture - it is your interpretation. Irrelevant. Relevant. Irrelevant. Perfectly relevant. Is that true? Okay what is truth in your worldview? Truth in my worldview? Yes, what is truth?
Let’s see, ya know I’ll have to think about that, because there was a time when I believed like you did, that truth was the Word of God, and everything that it said. Ya, great, now I’d like to know what truth is? Well, let me just explain to you about the transition – certainly - because I can no longer... You’re going the wrong way. I can no longer accept a piece of literature that people claim as one piece of literature and on one had it says “Hate your enemies” and on the other hand it says “Love them.” So you went from God being the authority to YOU being the authority, correct? The Bible implodes when you look at the contradictions, So you are the authority now. You went from God being the authority to you being the authority, is that correct? I can tell you what is not an authority... Okay but you’re the authority on what is... for truth is something that contradicts itself. Well, I’m saying it’s not contradictory. It certainly is. Well you’re the authority on that. Okay, let me ask you this question… Well you’re the authority on saying that it is. Let me ask you this question: Why are contradictions not allowed? Well, because that’s an element of truth. Okay - And truth doesn’t contradict itself - But you told me that you don’t know what truth is, now you’re telling me it’s an element of truth. Are you’re telling me that you know what it is?
Well, what is truth? Does truth contradict itself? It does not. Then why does the Bible contradict itself? It doesn’t. You believe it’s true, certainly it does. Is that true sir? Yes. What is truth in your worldview? The truth is that the Bible contradicts itself. What is truth? I’m not asking you what a truth claim is, I’m asking you what your standard of truth is? I mean - What is truth? It seems when we start to get to the meat of things - this is what happened on the show. is that as we get to the meat of things - right people avoid it. You played a game. You have to have a standard of truth to evaluate my answer. You, you actually won’t let me answer that question. Oh, no, what is truth? I’ll let you. I mean, I mean... We’re playing games with the idea of truth here. Is that true? [Woman laughing] This is your game. Well, I realize you say that’s a game, and that’s why you stopped me, but the reason you stopped me is you have the same issue as the atheists. You can’t answer these questions, and they’re difficult. I can’t answer these questions because I’m being honest. Is it true that you’re being honest? You, you believe that you know what truth is. Is it true that you’re being honest? You believe that you know what truth is. Is that true? But that’s your claim. Is that true? You are a magician with cards sir. Ya, you think so? Is that true? Absolutely.
Is that true? Absolutely - Is that absolutely true? Absolutely. Okay great, what is truth in your worldview? Truth is not Scripture. It’s not Scripture? Okay, what is it? I’m not asking what it isn’t. If you know what it isn’t you have to know what it is. No, I don’t. Oh, is that true, that you don’t have to know? No actually I don't. You don’t? I don’t. Well, you see the folly, what happens when you deny the truth of Scripture, and you deny that as your authority. Now if I stand right here and I say: “Do you see that he believes that Scripture is truth but he can’t validate that claim,” are you gonna edit that out? No. You’re not? Because you’re making a truth claim and you’ve given up truth. It’s nonsense what you say. There’s no need to edit that out. Are you kid… That's gold! Romans 1 applies to all worldviews. You see there’s only really two worldviews. There’s “God,” and there’s “not-God.” There’s “God,” and there’s “not-God.” Well, how many “gods” are there? There’s only one God. That’s what Scripture tells us. So if you don’t believe in the Christian God, you’re not a theist, you’re an idolater, and I treat all not-God worldviews the same way; Since you reject the God of Christianity,
how do you know what you know? Sir, I don’t believe you’re a Christian from the things that you’ve said today. So you’re not going to say- you’re not going to shake my hand? I will, I will - you can treat me not as a Christian - I will, but I wanted to get my piece out first – I’m listening - I'm saying that if you deny God as your authority, you’re not a Christian, and I urge you repent, and I thank you for having me on the show. Deny God as my authority, - that's right - when did I say I deny God as my authority? When you said that you were. I didn’t say that I was my authority. Well, you said that you didn’t have one, and when you say you don’t have one, it's denying God as the authority. Not really. Not really. Is that true sir? I’m simply saying I don’t have to concede to your mindset of playing word games. It’s not a word game. It is a game. Is that true? You’re playing a game. What is truth in your worldview, sir? What you’re trying to do is you’re trying to take an argument and trying to play a shell game. What is truth? What is this and that? That's right. Don’t you think "What is truth" is important? I asked you specific questions on the show that you could not answer. You could not give me one indexical… I didn’t understand your questions. That’s my point. My point is you’re trying to say "I have a proof," and it’s this Scripture and you don't have...
- I’m saying… an inkling of what it says. I’m saying that the… That makes no sense. The proof that God exists, is that without him you can’t know anything, you can't prove anything. You’re making your argument without being literate in the Scripture. That doesn’t make sense. Okay, but the thing is you're making truth claims, You're making truth claims, and you haven't told us what your standard of truth is yet. What you’re trying to do, is you’re trying to set up something that is really spurious… Is that true sir? Like I said, it’s just a one way street. You're making truth claims sir. I urge you to repent and go to the truth. Repent of what? What do I need to repent of? Repent of your denial, of the God you know that exists. Repent of elevating… I love Jesus. No you don’t - You exhaust a lot of people - He’s not your standard of truth! You’re your own standard of truth. I don't love Jesus? No you don’t. You deny the Lord that I adore. Where do you get your energy? Where do I get my energy? I mean do you drink Red Bull? When people insult my Lord, that’s where I get my energy. Can you hug my neck? I’m not gonna hug your neck sir, you need to repent. I need to repent cause I love Jesus with all of my heart? You don’t’ love Jesus, sir. You’re your ultimate authority. You love an idol that you’ve created.
I’ve created Jesus. That’s right, you’ve created an idol because you’re the authority as to what He said. I really see no point in saying: “I have an authority but I’m an illiterate.” - Are you going to edit this out? - That doesn’t make sense to me. No, the thing is, what you guys are saying are nonsensical because you’ve denied truth. That’s a huge issue. So it’s nonsense, that Jesus spent time and he healed sinners. I’m saying, that’s a discussion you have with Christians, who can account for truth, not with people who say: “ Truth? I don’t have an answer for you.” So you don't you don't need - you don't have... There’s no need to answer me because you don’t consider me a Christian. No, I’m not, I'm saying you need to repent. The thing is if you say: “Look, I don’t have truth…” That really leaves you - look - an escape for accountability doesn't it? No, what I’m saying, I'm saying... You’re very unaccountable. If you can admit you can’t have truth without Christ, without God as your authority, I'll talk with you about anything. I mean you’ve got an escape for anytime you get challenged, you just say: "Is that truth?” and you just walk right out of the argument. - That's right. - You’re not accountable to anything. I’m accountable to my Lord, that’s why I’m here doing this. That’s about it, sir! Amen! [Voices in background] Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! I mean you’re not gonna, you’re not gonna answer anybody with respect. Oh, I think I… I think...
Okay, let me ask you this, let me ask you this question: A person’s walking towards a cliff, he’s about to jump off and you have somebody that’s saying: “You know it’s a really nice day and Jesus loves you and stuff like that” and somebody says: “You might want to stop and turn around there’s a cliff in front of you.” Who is the more loving person? [Woman in background] The second one. Well, I want this man to answer. Who’s the more loving person? Somebody’s walking towards a cliff somebody comes up to you and says: “Jesus loves you,” and somebody says: “There’s a cliff in front of you, STOP TURN AROUND!” Who’s the more loving person? Would it be safe to assume that what you’re trying to say … Sir, who’s the more loving person? Can I answer it without – certainly - just giving you a yes or no? No. Ya okay. Is that possible? Well, go ahead. I mean is it true that you’re trying to set me up for, ohhhh, I may be going to Hell, and you’re the more loving person who will stop me from going to Hell. Yes, that’s true. And so, you’re gonna stop me from going to Hell. I’m not gonna stop you, I’m gonna warn you. And simply, you’re gonna warn me based upon something that you have no syntagmatic nor - Is that true? - paradigmatic analysis for. Is that true that I don’t have that? I'm simply saying... provide it to me, and prove to me that you have it.
You’re telling me that I don’t have it… If you have it... You’re telling me that I don’t have it, you’re making a knowledge claim. - I'm simply saying - I’m simply saying if you have it, produce it to me! Give it to me! Give it to me right now! I’m all ears! But the thing is… Give it to me... Give it to me right now. Prove to these people – okay - give it to me! First of all… - You can't give it to me. Cause I don't understand what you're saying. You don't have a - And the only problem is - you don’t have a clue as to what I’m saying. - and you’re trying to tell me about some spurious - the only problem is - idea that they inserted Hell and God’s gonna burn people for eternity - And what’s the standard, what’s the standard by which you make that judgment? You just look at the basics. So you are your own standard. You’ve elevated yourself above God, and that’s why you need to repent, sir. You’re often victorious with exhaustion. Don't edit that out. [Sye chuckles] I mean you want to make a… I want you to repent that’s what I want! You’re trying to say that Hell exists and you have no proof. Could you be wrong about that? No. So, you’re absolutely certain about that? [Voice in background] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it and death and Hell - Look at the physical the physical evidence - [Voice in background] and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. - Where is the physical evidence for Hell? Where is the linguistic evidence of Hell.
You can’t show me anywhere… Let me ask you a question. where we have syntagmatic and paradigmatic analysis - Let me ask you a question - that would suggest a Hell, and yet you spin this lie - Where do you get – this pretension. Where do you hear - where do you hear evidence in the secular world? In court. Who do you give evidence to in court? I’m simply asking for anyone to give me - who - if you find someone who will give me that kind of an analysis then I will believe in Hell. Is that too much to ask? Who do you give evidence to in court? Who do you give evidence to in court? The judge and jury. You’re asking me for evidence and I will not elevate you to the position of judge. God is the Judge! What you’re doing is avoiding the question… because you can’t say that’s there’s a real cliff. There’s no one who would legitimately say that there is an analysis that can be done… Do you deny Hell? I deny Hell. Well think that your expertise in Hell is about - 30 years premature sir. [Laughter in background] Why are you so hateful? Sir you said - you admitted that if there’s a cliff there… Hell is, is, is not existent. It's a myth. It's a lie. Do you believe in Satyrs? I believe that you need to repent. Do you believe in Satyrs?
I believe that you need to – what those cedar trees? Ya, I believe in cedar trees. I'm not going to repent. You’re not gonna repent, that’s right! Repent is a very spurious term of the church. It’s not even a literate term to use. I heard you say that. You say it’s to think differently about it. Oh its, it’s stupid! It's irrational! "Repentance is stupid." “Repentance is stupid,” and this is someone who affirms Christianity. Please get me on camera, as stating repentance is actually a failed meta-language of theology. Anyone who spins the idea of repentance is illiterate, very illiterate. Is that clear enough? It’s very clear, sir. Very clear. That man is going to Hell, unless he repents, and if not for the grace of God, that’s us. You see we have to love them. They’re enemies of God, don’t get me wrong. This is a battle that we’re in, but we love them. We show our love to them. You see, in 1 Peter 3:15, it says to do this with gentleness and respect. If you go to the local department store, and you buy a Nerf ball, there’s not a whole lot of warnings with it. You go and buy a gun and you have a list of warnings. Why?
Because you’re dealing with something that’s powerful, something that’s dangerous! 1Peter 3:15: “Do this with gentleness and respect.” See you’re not talking about the complexity of the eye, you’re destroying worldviews. And one thing that I’ve really actually enjoyed about this project, is that when I talk to people, I don’t get in on their eyes and I don’t know what’s happening and since I’m a Christian, I don’t know realize what’s happening inside and I have to be more sensitive to that. Because I watch some of this video and you can see their eyes and you can see that their worldview is crumbling. You have to be there and show them the hope in Jesus Christ – their only hope! Cause you don’t, you don't crush their worldview and just walk away, that would be inhumane. What I urge you to do is change your mind about God, and I don’t know if you heard me explaining it earlier, but to change our mind, the Greek is “metanoia” it means to repent; to change your mind about God. Now the question is how do you change your mind about God? You can’t. Repentance is the gift of God and that’s another thing that the Roman Catholic Church doesn't teach. You have to do works for it, but the Bible says that repentance is the gift of God. So if this pricks your heart at all, I urge you to go home, put your face in the carpet
and beg God to change your mind about him. To change your mind about the way you live your life, so that you do the things that He loves, you do the things that He wants you to do, and that’s what we’re proclaiming here today. Ya know, and it’s no accident that you’re standing here talking to us today. God is sovereign over all. It’s no accident, and ya know the Bible talks about sheep and it talks about goats. But one thing that it never says is that goats become sheep. But Jesus Christ said: “My sheep hear my voice,” and I hope and I pray that you’re one of his sheep. I hope and I pray that, so that you might be saved, because if you’re a goat, then this is not good for you because you’re only being fattened for the slaughter. That’s what the Bible says, but I hope and pray that that’s not the case. I hope that Jesus Christ is speaking to your heart by the power of the Holy Spirit, that you might repent and come to know Him. That you might come to have salvation. That you might live life and live it abundantly because it’s a gift of God. And that’s what I hope for you today. What was your name again, sir? Franco. Franco would you like for us to pray for you as a group tonight as well?
Yes. I’d appreciate that. Okay. Great, okay. Well it was great to meet you. Nice talking to you. And you think about what we were saying okay - Alright - and thanks for stopping. Alright. Question, could you be wrong about everything you claim to know? You sayin’ yes. Then how could you know that for ‘sho, bro? That’s a knowledge claim, but you gave up knowledge when you said you could be wrong about everything. You just said you could. Of course you can know things, but on what basis are they understood? What do you know? How do you know it? As far as truth, tell me! Do your logic and your reasoning confirm proof? Dear Mr. Atheist with evolutionist themes unless you start with God you can’t make sense of anything. Nothing! Think! You live in the world of happenstance. That’s right. So tell me, how can you happen to have a stance when it comes to facts, truth, morality? You determine to live on the basis of society? Really? You say your reasoning is valid cause reality we trust is science, history, laws of gravity? Really. Tell me. How did you get all this truth without God? Romans 1: 18, You suppress the truth.
18 through 20, You’re without excuse. You know God exists, the God of the Bible, but you won’t serve him, cause you your own idol. You wanna be God, listen in my worldview, both knowledge and certainty are consistent, cause I know the only God who knows everything. You livin’ in confusion cause you reject the King! Yeah! Presuppositional apologetics! Yes! See it’s foolishness to say you can know something without God. It is. Like its foolishness to say you can’t know anything. That’s right! Cause you can’t know that. But we know things, by the all-knowing. Cause without Him we couldn’t know nothing for certain. All you get is foolishness from self-reliance and science can’t prove the validity of sceince. True. How do I know God exists? Why test Him, cause without Him, you couldn’t make sense of that question. Think about it. You want evidence like you the judge and jury now? The only judge is Christ and He is not on trial. No. You say Scripture contradicts and lacks truth but contradictions and truth don't make sense in your worldview! You live in the world of... So you got me.
I’m down with presupp. I’ve seen enough. I’m in, teach me how to do it. Teach you how to do it? Teach me how to do it! I can’t. So I’ve been sitting here listening to… Ha, ha, ha, ha! Well, the thing is… I'm in, I'm in! I’ll, I'll teach you how to do it.” Okay. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. All the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in Christ. You cannot know anything at all unless you start with God. Go forth.
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