Facebook Whistleblower Frances Haugen testifies before Senate Commerce Committee

Facebook Whistleblower Frances Haugen testifies before Senate Commerce Committee

SUBTITLE'S INFO:

Language: English

Type: Human

Number of phrases: 5118

Number of words: 23614

Number of symbols: 115075

DOWNLOAD SUBTITLES:

DOWNLOAD AUDIO AND VIDEO:

SUBTITLES:

Subtitles prepared by human
00:29
[ROOM CHATTER]
02:00
[ROOM CHATTER] [INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS]
05:46
[INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS]
08:22
>> THE MEETING AND HEARING FOR THE SUBCOMMITTEE WILL COME TO ORDER. I AM VERY PLEASED TO WELCOME MY COLLEAGUES, AND I WANT TO THANK RANKING MEMBER SENATOR BLACKBURN FOR HER COOPERATION AND COLLABORATION. THE RANKING MEMBER WHO IS HERE, SENATOR WICKER, AS WELL AS OUR CHAIRWOMAN, MARIA CANTWELL, SENATOR CANTWELL I AM SURE WILL BE HERE SHORTLY. I WOULD LIKE TO THANK OUR
09:01
WITNESS, FRANCES HAUGEN , FOR BEING HERE, AND THE COUNCIL WHO ARE REPRESENTING HER TODAY. I WANT TO GIVE YOU MY HEARTFELT GRATITUDE FOR YOUR COURAGE AND STRENGTH IN COMING FORWARD, AS YOU HAVE DONE STANDING UP TO ONE THE MOST POWERFUL CORPORATE GIANTS IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, WITHOUT ANY EXAGGERATION. YOU HAVE A COMPELLING, CREDIBLE VOICE, WE HAVE HEARD ALREADY, BUT YOU ARE NOT HERE ALONE. YOU ARE ARMED WITH DOCUMENT AND
09:40
EVIDENCE, AND YOU SPEAK VOLUMES, AS THEY DO, ABOUT HOW FACEBOOK HAS PUT PROFITS AHEAD OF PEOPLE. AMONG OTHER REVELATIONS, THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE PROVIDED TO CONGRESS IS POWERFUL PROOF THAT FACEBOOK NEW ITS PRODUCTS -- KNEW ITS PRODUCTS WERE HARMING TEENAGERS. THERE IS A QUESTION, WHICH I
10:21
HOPE YOU WILL DISCUSS, AS TO WHETHER THERE IS SUCH A THING AS A SAFE ALGORITHM. FACEBOOK SOUGHT TEENS CREATING SECRET ACCOUNTS THAT ARE OFTEN HIDDEN FROM THEIR PARENTS AS UNIQUE VALUE PROPOSITION, IN THEIR ROLE -- WORDS, A UNIQUE VALUE PROPOSITION, DRIVING UP SHAREHOLDERS AT THIS EXPENSE OF SAFETY. IT DOUBLED DOWN ON TARGETING CHILDREN, PUSHING PRODUCTS ONTO
10:56
PRE-TEENAGERS THAT IT KNOWS ARE HARMFUL TO OUR KIDS' MENTAL HEALTH AND WELL-BEING. INSTEAD OF TELLING PARENTS, FACEBOOK CONCEALED THE FACT AND STONEWALLED AND BLOCKED THIS INFORMATION FROM THE COMING PUBLIC, INCLUDING TO THIS COMMITTEE WHEN SENATOR BLACKBURN AND I SPECIFICALLY ASKED THE COMPANY. AND STILL EVEN NOW, AS OF JUST LAST THURSDAY, WHEN A FACEBOOK WITNESS CAME FORWARD AND TOLD US WHEN IT MIGHT DECIDE TO DISCLOSE
11:32
ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTS. THEY CONTINUED THEIR TACTICS EVEN AFTER THEY KNEW THE DISRUPTION. THEY CONTINUE TO PROFIT FROM THEM. THE PROPHET WAS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PAIN. LAST THURSDAY, THE FACEBOOK GLOBAL HEAD OF SAFETY WAS SIMPLE "IT'S RESEARCH IS NOT A BOMBSHELL" AND SHE REPEATED THE
12:11
LINE, "NOT A BOMBSHELL." THIS RESEARCH IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF A BOMBSHELL. FACEBOOK AND BIG TECH ARE FACING A BIG TOBACCO MOMENT, A MOMENT OF RECKONING. I SEE BIG 10 ECHO -- I SAW BIG TOBACCO AND HELPED LEAD THE STATE AND THAT LEGAL ACTION AND I REMEMBER VERY, VERY WELL THE MOMENT IN THE COURSE OF OUR LITIGATION WHEN WE LEARNED OF THOSE FILES THAT SHOWED NOT ONLY
12:48
THAT BIG TOBACCO NEW ITS PRODUCT CAUSED CANCER, BUT THAT THEY HAD DONE THE RESEARCH AND CONCEALED FILES AND NOW WE KNEW AND THE WORLD. BIG TECH NOW FACES THAT BIG TOBACCO, JAW-DROPPING MOMENT OF TRUTH. IT IS DOCUMENTED PROOF THAT FACEBOOK KNOWS ITS PRODUCTS CAN BE ADDICTIVE AND TOXIC TO CHILDREN, AND IT'S NOT JUST THAT THEY MADE MONEY. AGAIN, IT IS THAT THEY VALUED THEIR PROFIT MORE THAN THE PAIN THAT THEY CAUSED TO CHILDREN AND
13:24
THEIR FAMILIES. THE DAMAGE TO SELF INTEREST AND SELF-WORTH INFLICTED BY FACEBOOK TODAY WILL HAUNT A GENTLE RATION -- A GENERATION. FEELINGS OF ADEQUACY, REJECTION, AND SELF-HATRED -- OF INADEQUACY , REJECTION, AND SELF-HATRED WILL FACE OUR CHILDREN FOR YEARS TO COME. TEENAGERS TODAY LOOKING AT THEMSELVES IN THE MIRROR FEEL
14:01
DOUBT AND INSECURITY. MARK ZUCKERBERG OUGHT TO BE LOOKING AT HIMSELF IN THE MIRROR TODAY AND GET RATHER THAN TAKING RESPONSIBILITY AND SHOWING LEADERSHIP, MR. ZUCKERBERG IS GOING SAILING. HIS NEW MODUS OPERANDI IS NO APOLOGIES, ACTIONS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE. MARK ZUCKERBERG, YOU NEED TO COME BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE AND EXPLAIN TO FRANCES HAUGEN, TO
14:35
US, TO THE WORLD, AND TO THE PARENTS OF AMERICA WHAT YOU WERE DOING AND WHY YOU DID IT. HIS BUSINESS MODEL IS STRAIGHTFORWARD, MORE EYEBALLS, MORE DOLLARS. EVERYTHING FACEBOOK DOES IS TO ADD MORE USERS AND KEEP THEM ON THE APPS FOR LONGER IN ORDER TO HOOK US, IT USES OUR PRIVATE INFORMATION TO PRECISELY TARGET US WITH CONTENT AND RECOMMENDATIONS, AFFECTING WHAT
15:09
WILL PROVOKE A REACTION WILL KEEP SCROLLING. FAR OFTEN THEY ENCOURAGE THE MOST DISRUPTIVE AND DANGEROUS BEHAVIORS. AS WE SHOWED ON THURSDAY, WE CREATED A FAKE ACCOUNT. I OFFICE AND I DID AS A TEAM, INTERESTED IN EXTREME DIETING AND EATING DISORDERS. INSTAGRAM LATCHED ONTO THAT TEENAGER'S INITIAL INSECURITIES AND PUSHED MORE CONTENT AND RECOMMENDATIONS, GLORIFYING EATING DISORDERS. THAT IS HOW INSTAGRAM'S
15:47
ALGORITHMS CAN PUSH TEENS INTO DARKER AND DARKER PLACES. FACEBOOK'S OWN RESEARCHERS CALL IT INSTAGRAM'S "PERFECT STORM." IT IS EXACERBATING DOWNWARD SPIRALS. FACEBOOK HAS BEEN POWERFULLY MAXIMIZING PROFITS. FACEBOOK'S FAILURE TO ACT MAKES IT MORALLY BANKRUPT. AGAIN AND AGAIN, FACEBOOK REJECTED THEIR OWN RESEARCH LAST
16:24
WEEK MS. DAVIS SAID OPEN WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT" NO SPECIFIC PLANS, NO COMMITMENTS, ONLY PLATITUDES. THESE DOCUMENTS YOU HAVE REVEALED PROVIDED THIS COMPANY WITH A BLUEPRINT, SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS, THAT COULD'VE MADE FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM SAFE. THE COMPANY REPEATEDLY IGNORED THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM ITS OWN RESEARCHERS THAT WOULD HAVE MADE FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM
17:01
SAFER. FACEBOOK RESEARCHERS HAVE SUGGESTED CHANGING THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS TO STOP VOTING ACCOUNT KNOWN TO ENCOURAGE DANGEROUS BODY COMPARISONS. INSTEAD OF MAKING MEANINGFUL CHANGES, FACEBOOK PAYS LIP SERVICE AND IF THEY WON'T ACT, AND IF BIG TECH WON'T ACT, CONGRESS HAS TO INTERVENE. PRIVACY PROTECTION IS LONG OVERDUE. SENATOR MARKEY AND I HAVE INTRODUCED THE KIDS AT EACH WOULD BAN ADDICTIVE TACTICS THAT
17:39
FACEBOOK USES TO EXPLOIT CHILDREN. PARENTS DESERVE BETTER TOOLS TO PROTECT CHILDREN. I AM A FIRM SUPPORTER OF SECTION 230, WHICH SHOULD CONSIDER NARROWING THE SWEEPING IMMUNITY WITH ALGORITHMS AND AMPLIFYING ILLEGAL CONDUCT AND PERHAPS YOU WILL EXPAND ON IT. WE HAVE HEARD COMPELLING RECOMMENDATIONS ABOUT REQUIRING DISCLOSURES OF RESEARCH AND INDEPENDENT REVIEWS OF THESE PLATFORMS' ALGORITHMS, AND A PLAN TO PURSUE THESE IDEAS.
18:15
THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION SHOULD INVESTIGATE YOUR INTENTIONS AND CLAIMS, AND SO SHOULD THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION. FACEBOOK APPEARS TO HAVE MISLED THE PUBLIC AND INVESTORS AND IF THAT'S CORRECT, IT OUGHT TO BASE REAL PENALTIES AS A RESULT OF THAT MISLEADING AND DECEPTIVE MISREPRESENTATION. I WANT TO THANK ALL MY COLLEAGUES HERE TODAY, BECAUSE WHAT WE HAVE IS A BIPARTISAN
18:51
CONGRESSIONAL ROADMAP FOR REFORM THAT WILL SAFEGUARD AND PROTECT CHILDREN FROM BIG TECH. THAT WILL BE A FOCUS OF OUR SUBCOMMITTEE MOVING FORWARD AND IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE BIPARTISAN. I WILL JUST END ON THIS NOTE -- IN THE PAST WEEKS AND DAYS, PARENTS HAVE CONTACTED ME WITH THEIR STORIES, HEARTBREAKING, AND SPINE CHILLING STORIES ABOUT CHILDREN PUSHED INTO EATING DISORDERS, BULLYING ONLINE, SELF
19:26
INJURY OF THE MOST DISTURBING KIND, AND SOMETIMES EVEN TAKING THEIR LIVES BECAUSE OF SOCIAL MEDIA. PARENTS ARE HOLDING FACEBOOK ACCOUNTABLE BECAUSE OF YOUR BRAVERY AND WE NEED TO HOLD ACCOUNTABLE FACEBOOK AND ALL BIG TECH AS WELL. AGAIN, MY THANKS TO YOU. I'M GOING TO ENTER INTO THE RECORD A LETTER FROM 52 STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL AND TO MEMBERS OF THE YOUTH ADVISORY BOARD OF SAN DIEGO, AS LONG AS THERE IS
20:03
NO OBJECTIONS. I WILL NOW TURN TO THE RANKING MEMBER. >> THANK YOU FOR ENTERING THAT INTO THE RECORD FROM OUR STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL. GOOD MORNING TO EVERYONE. IT IS NICE TO SEE PEOPLE IN THIS HEARING ROOM AND TO BE HERE FOR THE HEARING TODAY. WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR APPEARANCE BEFORE US TODAY AND FORGIVING THE OPPORTUNITY NOT ONLY FOR CONGRESS BUT FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO HEAR FROM YOU IN THIS
20:38
SETTING. MR. CHAIRMAN, THANKS TO YOU AND YOUR STAFF THAT HAVE WORKED WITH OUR TEAM TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT WE HAVE THIS HEARING AND THIS OPPORTUNITY TODAY SO THAT WE CAN GET MORE INSIGHT INTO WHAT FACEBOOK IS ACTUALLY DOING AS THEY INVADE THE PRIVACY NOT ONLY OF ADULTS, BUT OF CHILDREN. AND LOOK AT THE WAYS THAT THEY ARE IN VIOLATION OF THE CHILDREN'S ONLINE PRIVACY PROTECTION ACT WHICH IS FEDERAL
21:12
LAW, AND LOOKING AT HOW THEY ARE EVADING THAT LAW AND WORKING AROUND IT. AS THE CHAIRMAN SAID, PRIVACY AND ONLINE PRIVACY, PASSING A FEDERAL PRIVACY STANDARD HAS BEEN LONG IN THE WORKS. I PUT MY FIRST ONE IN 2012 AND I THINK IT WILL BE THIS CONGRESS AND THIS SUBCOMMITTEE THAT WILL LEAD THE WAY TO ONLINE PRIVACY, DATA SECURITY, SECTION 230
21:47
REFORMS AND OF COURSE SENATOR KLOBUCHAR ALWAYS WANTS TO TALK ABOUT ANTITRUST. AND SENATOR MARKEY IS DOWN THERE. WHEN WE WERE IN THE HOUSE, WE WERE PROBABLY THE ONLY ONES WHO WERE TALKING ABOUT THE NEED TO HAVE A FEDERAL PRIVACY STANDARD. AS THE CHAIRMAN MENTIONED, LAST WEEK WE HEARD FROM MS. DAVIS, WHO HEADS GLOBAL SAFETY FOR FACEBOOK. AND IT WAS SURPRISING TO US THAT WHAT SHE TRIED TO DO WAS TO
22:24
MINIMIZE THE INFORMATION THAT WAS IN THESE DOCUMENTS, TO MINIMIZE THE RESEARCH AND TO MINIMIZE THE KNOWLEDGE THAT FACEBOOK HAD. AT 1.I EVEN REMINDED HER THE RESEARCH WAS NOT THIRD-PARTY RESEARCH, THE RESEARCH WAS THERE -- AND I EVEN REMINDED HER THE RESEARCH WAS NOT THIRD-PARTY RESEARCH, THE RESEARCH WAS FACEBOOK'S RESEARCH. THEY KNEW WHERE THE VIOLATIONS WERE AND THEY KNOW THEY ARE
22:58
GUILTY. THEY KNOW THIS. THE RESEARCH TELLS THEM THIS. LAST WEEK, IN ADVANCE OF OUR HEARING, FACEBOOK RELEASED TWO STUDIES AND SAID THAT THE WALL STREET JOURNAL WAS ALL WRONG, THEY HAD JUST GOTTEN IT WRONG, AS IF THE WALL STREET JOURNAL DID NOT KNOW HOW TO READ THESE DOCUMENTS AND HOW TO WORK THROUGH THIS RESEARCH. HAVING SEEN THE DATA THAT YOU'VE PRESENTED AND THE OTHER STUDIES
23:33
THAT FACEBOOK DID NOT PUBLICLY SHARE, I FEEL PRETTY CONFIDENT THAT IT FACEBOOK WHO HAS DONE THE MISREPRESENTING. HERE ARE SOME OF THE NUMBERS THAT FACEBOOK CHOSE NOT TO SHARE. MR. CHAIRMAN, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THESE AS WE TALK ABOUT THE SETTING FOR THIS HEARING, WHAT WE LEARNED LAST WEEK, WHAT YOU AND I HAVE BEEN LEARNING OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS ABOUT TECH AND FACEBOOK. 66% OF TEEN GIRLS ON INSTAGRAM AND 40% OF TEEN BOYS EXPERIENCE
24:12
NEGATIVE SOCIAL COMPARISONS. THIS IS FACEBOOK'S RESEARCH. 52% OF TEEN GIRLS WHO EXPERIENCE NEGATIVE SOCIAL COMPARISON ON INSTAGRAM SAID IT WAS CAUSED BY IMAGES RELATED TO BEAUTY, SOCIAL COMPARISON IS WORSE ON INSTAGRAM, BECAUSE IT IS RECEIVED AS REAL-LIFE BASED ON CELEBRITY STANDARDS. SOCIAL COMPARISON MIMICS A GRIEF CYCLE AND A DOWNWARD EMOTIONAL CYCLE, IT IN COMPANIES THE RATE
24:48
-- AND COMPANY THE RANGE OF MOST -- OF MESSAGES. FACEBOOK CALLS IT PROBLEMATIC USE. HERE IS WHAT ELSE WE KNOW -- FACEBOOK IS NOT INTERESTED IN MAKING SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO IMPROVE KIDS' SAFETY ON THEIR PLATFORMS, AT LEAST NOT WHEN THAT WOULD RESULT IN LOSING EYEBALLS ON POSTS OR DECREASING THEIR AD REVENUES. IN FACT, FACEBOOK IS RUNNING
25:27
SCARED, AS THEY KNOW THAT IN THEIR OWN WORDS, YOUNGER ADULTS ARE LESS ACTIVE AND LESS ENGAGED ON FACEBOOK AND THAT THEY ARE RUNNING OUT OF TEENS TO ADD TO INSTAGRAM. SO TEENS ARE LOOKING AT OTHER PLATFORMS LIKE TIKTOK AND FACEBOOK IS ONLY MAKING THE CHANGES THAT ADD TO THE USERS NUMBERS AND ULTIMATELY ITS PROFITS. FOLLOW THE MONEY. SO WHAT ARE THESE CHANGES? ALLOWING USERS TO CREATE MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS THAT FACEBOOK DOES NOT DELETE AND ENCOURAGING
26:04
TEENS TO CREATE SECOND ACCOUNTS THEY CAN HIDE FROM THEIR PARENTS. THEY ARE ALSO STUDYING YOUNGER AND YOUNGER TILDEN, AS YOUNG AS EIGHT -- YOUNGER CHILDREN, AS YOUNG AS EIGHT, SO THEY CAN MARKET TO THEM. MS. DAVIS SAID KIDS BELOW 13 ARE NOT ALLOWED ON FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM, BUT WE KNOW THAT THEY ARE BECAUSE SHE TOLD US THEY RECENTLY HAD LEE DID 600,000 -- THEY HAD RECENTLY DELETED 600,000 ACCOUNTS FROM KIDS UNDER AGE 13. HOW DO YOU GET THAT MANY UNDER AGE ACCOUNTS IF YOU ARE TURNING
26:39
A BLIND EYE TO THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE? AND IN ORDER TO CLEAN IT UP, YOU HAD TO DELETE IT AND YOU SAID, BY THE WAY, WE JUST IN THE LAST MONTH DELETE IT 600,000 UNDER AGE ACCOUNTS. AND SPEAKING OF TURNING A BLIND EYE, FACEBOOK TURNS A BLIND EYE TO USER PRIVACY. NEWS BOOK YESTERDAY, THE PRIVATE DATA OF OVER 1.5 BILLION, THAT'S RIGHT 1.5 BILLION FACEBOOK USERS
27:14
IS BEING SOLD ON A HACKING FORUM . THAT IS ITS BIGGEST DATA BREACH TO DATE. EXAMPLES LIKE THIS THUNDERSTORM I STRONG COMPLAINTS ABOUT FACEBOOK COLLECTING THE DATA OF KIDS AND TEENS AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH IT. FACEBOOK TURNS A BLIND EYE TOWARDS BLATANT HUMAN EXPECTATION TAKING PLACE ON ITS PLATFORM, TRAFFICKING, FORCED LABOR, CARTELS, THE WORST POSSIBLE THINGS ONE CAN IMAGINE. BIG TECH COMPANIES HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH ABUSING CONSUMERS FOR
27:50
TOO LONG. IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS BOOK PRIORITIZES PROFITS OVER THE WELL-BEING OF CHILDREN AND ALL USERS. SO AS A MOTHER AND A GRANDMOTHER, THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT IS OF PARTICULAR CONCERN TO ME. SO WE THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY MS. HAUGEN, AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO GETTING TO THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT FACEBOOK IS DOING WITH USERS' DATA AND HOW THEY ARE ABUSING THEIR PRIVACY AND
28:24
HOW THEY SHOW A LACK OF RESPECT FOR THE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE ON THEIR NETWORK. WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR TESTIMONY. SEN. BLUMENTHAL: THANK YOU SENATOR BLACKBURN. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE RANKING MEMBER WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A -- >> I WILL JUST TAKE A MOMENT OR TWO AND I APPRECIATE BEING ABLE TO SPEAK AS RANKING MEMBER. THIS IS A SUBCOMMITTEE HEARING. YOU SEE SOME VACANT SEATS.
29:01
THERE ARE ALSO A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON SO PEOPLE WILL BE COMING AND GOING. I AM WILLING TO PREDICT THIS WILL HAVE ALMOST 100% ATTENDANCE BY MEMBERS OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE BECAUSE OF THE IMPORTANCE OF THE SUBJECT MATTER. THANKS FOR COMING FORWARD TO SHARE CONCERNS ABOUT FACEBOOK'S BUSINESS PRACTICES, WITH RESPECT TO CHILDREN AND TEENS AND THAT IS THE MAIN TOPIC OF OUR HEARING TODAY, PROTECTING KIDS ONLINE.
29:32
THE RECENT REVELATIONS ABOUT FACEBOOK'S MENTAL HEALTH EFFECTS ON CHILDREN AND ITS PLANS TO TARGET YOUNGER AUDIENCES ARE INDEED DISTURBING. I THINK YOU ARE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF BIPARTISAN CONCERN ABOUT THIS TODAY AND IN FUTURE HEARINGS. THEY SHOW HOW URGENT IT IS FOR CONGRESS TO ACT AGAINST POWERFUL TECH COMPANIES ON BEHALF OF CHILDREN AND THE BROADER PUBLIC. I SAY POWERFUL TECH COMPANIES,
30:10
AND THEY ARE POSSESSIVE OF IN -- OF IMMENSE POWER. THE PRODUCT IS ADDICTIVE AND PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS. I TALKED TO AN OPINION MAKER JUST DOWN THE HALL A FEW MOMENTS BEFORE THIS HEARING, AND THIS PERSON SAID, THE TECH GODS HAVE BEEN DEMYSTIFIED NOW. I THINK THIS HEARING TODAY, MR. CHAIR, IS A PART OF THE PROCESS OF DEMYSTIFYING BIG TECH.
30:50
THE CHILDREN OF AMERICA ARE HOOKED ON THEIR PRODUCT. IT IS OFTEN DESTRUCTIVE AND HARMFUL AND THERE IS KNOWLEDGE ON BEHALF OF THE LEADERSHIP OF THESE BIG TECH COMPANIES THAT IT IS TRUE. MS. HAUGEN I HOPE YOU WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT YOUR WORK AT FACEBOOK AND COMPARE IT TO OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES. I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW THIS COMMITTEE AND THIS CONGRESS CAN SHOW GREATER ACCOUNTABILITY AND
31:26
TRANSPARENCY, ESPECIALLY WITH REGARD TO CHILDREN. THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN AND THANK YOU MS. HAUGEN FOR BEING HERE. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: THE WITNESS TODAY IS FRANCES HAUGEN. SHE WAS THE LEAD ON THE MISINFORMATION TEAM. SHE HOLDS A DEGREE IN ELECTRICAL AND COMPUTER ENGINEERING AND AN MBA FROM HARVARD. SHE MADE THE COURAGEOUS DECISION, AS ALL OF US HERE AND MANY AROUND THE WORLD KNOW, TO LEAVE FACEBOOK AND REVEAL THE TERRIBLE TRUTH ABOUT THE COMPANY
32:03
SHE LEARNED DURING HER TENURE THERE. I THINK WE ARE ALL IN AGREEMENT HERE AND EXPRESSING OUR GRATITUDE AND ADMIRATION FOR YOUR BRAVERY COMING FORWARD. THEN Q YO -- THANK YOU, MS. HAUGEN. PLEASE PROCEED. MS. HAUGEN: GOOD AFTERNOON CHAIRMAN BLUMENTHAL, RANKING NUMBER BLACKBURN AND MEMBERS OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO IMPAIR IN FRONT OF YOU.
32:38
MY NAME IS FRANCES HAUGEN. I USED TO WORK AT FACEBOOK. I JOINED BECAUSE I THOUGHT FACEBOOK HAD THE POTENTIAL TO BRING OUT THE BEST OF US. I'M HERE TODAY BECAUSE I THINK IT HARMS CHILDREN, STOKE DIVISION AND HARM OUR MICHAEL C. THEY KNOW HOW TO MAKE -- OUR MICHAEL C. -- OUR DEMOCRACY. THEY PUT PROFITS BEFORE PEOPLE. CONGRESSIONAL ACTION IS NEEDED. THEY WON'T SOLVE THIS WITHOUT YOUR HELP. YESTERDAY WE SAW FACEBOOK GET TAKEN UP THE INTERNET.
33:14
I DON'T KNOW WHY IT WENT DOWN, BUT FOR MORE THAN FIVE HOURS FACEBOOK WASN'T USED TO DEEPEN DIVIDES, DESTABILIZE DEMOCRACIES AND MAKE YOUNG PEOPLE FEEL BAD ABOUT THEIR BODIES. IT ALSO MEANS MILLIONS OF SMALL BUSINESSES WEREN'T ABLE TO REACH POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS AND COUNTLESS PHOTOS OF NEW BABIES WEREN'T CELEBRATED BY FRIENDS AND FAMILY AROUND THE WORLD. I BELIEVE IN THE POTENTIAL FACEBOOK. WE CAN HAVE SOCIAL MEDIA WE ENJOY, THAT CONNECTS US, WITHOUT TEARING APART OUR DEMOCRACY,
33:48
PUTTING OUR CHILDREN IN DANGER, AND SEWING ETHNIC -- AROUND THE WORLD. I HAVE WORKED AT LARGE COMPANIES SINCE 2006. MY JOB IS LARGELY FOCUSED ON ALGORITHMIC PROGRESS IS AND LIKE THE ONES THAT POWER AT THE NEWSFEED. HAVING WORKED ON FOUR DIFFERENT TYPES OF SOCIAL NETWORKS, WERE -- UNDERSTAND HOW COMPLEX AND NUANCED HIS PROBLEMS ARE. HOWEVER, THE CHOICES BEING MADE INSIDE OF FACEBOOK ARE
34:24
DISASTROUS FOR OUR CHILDREN, FOR OUR PUBLIC SAFETY, FOR OUR PRIVACY COME IN FOR OUR DEMOCRACY, AND THAT IS WHY WE MUST DEMAND FACEBOOK MAKE CHANGES. DURING MY TIME AT FACEBOOK, FIRST WORKING AS THE LEAD PRODUCT MANAGER FROM DISINFORMATION AND LATER UNCOVER ESPIONAGE, I SAW FACEBOOK REPEATEDLY ENCOUNTER CONFLICT BETWEEN ITS OWN PROFITS AND OUR SAFETY. FACEBOOK CONSISTENTLY RESOLVED THESE CONFLICTS IN FAVOR OF THEIR OWN PROFITS. THE RESULT HAS BEEN MORE DIVISION, MORE HARM, OR LIES, THREATS, AND COMBAT.
34:59
IN SOME CASES, THIS DANGEROUS ONLINE TALK HAS LED TO ACTUAL VIOLENCE THAT HARMS AND EVEN KILLS PEOPLE. THIS IS NOT SIMPLY A MATTER OF CERTAIN SOCIAL MEDIA USERS BEING ANGRY OR ABOUT ONE SIDE BEING RADICALIZED AGAINST THE OTHER. IT IS ABOUT FACEBOOK CHOOSING TO GROW AT ALL COSTS, BECOMING ANIMALS $20 COMPANY BY BUYING ITS PROFITS -- $20 TRILLION COMPANY BY BUYING ITS PROFITS OVER OUR SAFETY. ALMOST NO ONE OUTSIDE OF FACEBOOK KNOWS WHAT HAPPENS INSIDE OF FACEBOOK.
35:35
THE COMPANY INTENTIONALLY HIDES VITAL INFORMATION FROM THE PUBLIC, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, AND GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD. DOCUMENTS I PROVIDED PROVE THAT IT -- THE EFFICACY OF THE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE SYSTEMS AS WELL AS SPREADING DEVICES AND EXTREME -- DIVISIVE AND EXTREME IDEAS. THE SEVERITY OF THIS CRISIS DEMANDS THAT WE BREAK OUT OF OUR PREVIOUS REGULATORY FRAME. FACEBOOK WANTS TO TRICK YOU INTO
36:12
THINKING THAT PRIVACY PROTECTIONS OR CHANGES TO SECTION 230 ALONE WILL BE SUFFICIENT. WHILE IMPORTANT, THEY WILL NOT GET TO THE CORE OF THE ISSUE, WHICH IS THAT NO ONE TRULY UNDERSTANDS THE DESTRUCTIVE TRAITS OF FACEBOOK EXCEPT FOR FACEBOOK. WE CAN AFFORD NOTHING LESS THAN FULL TRANSPARENCY. AS LONG AS FACEBOOK IS OPERATING IN THE SHADOWS, HIDING IT RESEARCH FROM PUBLIC SCRUTINY, IT IS UNACCOUNTABLE. UNTIL THE INCENTIVES CHANGE, FACEBOOK WILL NOT CHANGE. LEFT ALONE, FACEBOOK WILL CONTINUE TO MAKE CHOICES THAT GO AGAINST THE COMMON GOOD, OUR COMMON GOOD.
36:50
WHEN WE REALIZED BIG TOBACCO WAS HIDING THE HARMS AND BECAUSE, THE GOVERNMENT TOOK ACTION. WHEN WE FIGURED OUT CARS WERE SAFER WITH SEATBELTS, THE GOVERNMENT TOOK ACTION. AND WHEN THEY LEARNED A BEER'S WERE TAKING LIVES, THE GOVERNMENT TOOK ACTION. I EMPLOY YOU -- IMPLORE YOU TO DO THE SAME. FACEBOOK SHAPES ARE PERCEPTION OF THE WORLD BY CHOOSING THE INFORMATION SEE. EVEN THOSE WHO DON'T USE FACEBOOK ARE IMPACTED BY THE MAJORITY WHO DO. A COMPANY WITH SUCH FRIGHTENING INFLUENCE OVER SO MANY PEOPLE, DEEPEST LOTS, FEELINGS, BEHAVIORS, NEEDS REAL OVERSIGHT.
37:29
BUT FACEBOOK'S CLOSED DESIGN MEANS IT HAS NO REAL OVERSIGHT, ONLY FACEBOOK KNOWS HOW IT PERSONALIZES YOUR FEED FOR YOU. COMPANIES LIKE GOOGLE, ANY INDEPENDENT RESEARCHER CAN DOWNLOAD FROM THE INTERNET THE COMPANY RESEARCH RESULT AND WRITE PAPERS ABOUT WHAT THEY FIND, AND THEY DO. BUT FACEBOOK HIDES BEHIND WALLS THAT KEEPS RESEARCHERS AND REGULATORS FROM UNDERSTANDING THE TRUE DYNAMICS OF THEIR SYSTEM. FACEBOOK WILL TELL YOU PRIVACY MEANS THEY CAN'T GIVE YOU DATA. THIS IS NOT TRUE. WHEN TOBACCO COMPANIES CLAIMED THAT FILTERED CIGARETTES WERE SAFER FOR CONSUMERS, SCIENTISTS
38:07
COULD INDEPENDENTLY AND -- INVALIDATE THESE MARKETING MESSAGES AND CONFIRM THAT IN FACT THEY POSED A GREATER THREAT TO HUMAN HEALTH. THE PUBLIC CANNOT DO THE SAME WITH FACEBOOK. WE ARE GIVEN NO OTHER OPTION THEN TO TAKE THEIR MARKETING MESSAGES ON BLIND FAITH. NOT ONLY DOES THE COMPANY HIDE MOST OF ITS OWN DATA, MY DISCLOSURE HAS PROVED THAT WHEN FACEBOOK IS DIRECTLY ASKED QUESTIONS AS IMPORTANT AS, HOW DO IMPACT HEALTH AND SAFETY OF OUR CHILDREN, THEY MISLEAD AND
38:43
MISDIRECT. FACEBOOK HAS NOT EARNED OUR BLIND FAITH. THIS INABILITY TO SEE IT SYSTEMS AND CONFIRM HOW THEY WORK IS LIKE THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION REGULATING CARS BY ONLY WATCHING THEM DRIVE DOWN THE HIGHWAY. TODAY, NO REGULATOR HAS SOLUTIONS FOR HOW TO FACE -- FIX FACEBOOK BECAUSE FACEBOOK DOESN'T WANT US TO KNOW ABOUT WHAT IS CAUSING THE PROBLEMS. OTHERWISE THERE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A NEED FOR A WHISTLEBLOWER.
39:17
HOW IS THE PUBLIC SUPPOSED TO ASSESS IF FACEBOOK IS FIXING THE PROBLEMS IF THE PUBLIC HAS NO VISIBILITY INTO HOW THEY OPERATE? THIS MUST CHANGE. FACEBOOK ONCE YOU TO BELIEVE THE PROBLEMS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE UNSOLVABLE. THEY WANT YOU TO BELIEVE IN FALSE CHOICES. THEY WANT YOU TO BELIEVE MUST CHOOSE OR LOSE WERE THE MOST
39:50
IMPORTANT VALUES -- TO BE ABLE TO SHARE PHOTOS OF KIDS WITH OLD FRIENDS, YOU MUST ALSO BE INUNDATED WITH ANGER DRIVEN VIROLOGY. -- VIRALITY. I AM HERE TODAY THAT IS NOT TRUE. THESE PROBLEMS ARE SOLVABLE. A SAFER, FREE-SPEECH RESPECTING, MORE ENJOYABLE SOCIAL MEDIA IS POSSIBLE, BUT THERE IS ONE THING I HOPE EVERYONE TAKES AWAY FROM THESE DISCLOSURES -- IT IS THAT
40:26
FACEBOOK CAN CHANGE WHAT IS CLEARLY NOT GOING TO DO SO ON ITS OWN. MY FEAR IS THAT WITHOUT ACTION, DIVISIVE AND EXTREMIST BEHAVIORS WE SEE TODAY ARE ONLY THE BEGINNING OF WHAT WE SAW IN MYANMAR AND NOW IN ETHIOPIA ARE THE OPENING CHAPTERS OF A STORY SO TERRIFYING NO ONE WANTS TO READ THE END OF IT. CONGRESS CAN CHANGE THE RULES THAT FACEBOOK PLAYS BY AND STOP THE MANY HARMS IT IS NOW CAUSING . WE NOW KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT FACEBOOK'S INSTRUCTIVE IMPACT -- DESTRUCTIVE IMPACT.
41:06
I CAME FORWARD AT GREAT PERSONAL RISK BECAUSE I BELIEVE WE STILL HAVE TIME TO ACT, BUT WE MUST ACT NOW. I AM ASKING YOU TO ACT. THANK YOU. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: THANK YOU FOR TAKING THAT PERSONAL RISK COULD WE WILL DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING TO PROTECT AND STOP ANY RETALIATION AGAINST YOU IN ANY LEGAL ACTION THE COMPANY MAY BRING OR ANYONE ELSE. WITH MADE THAT VERY CLEAR IN THE COURSE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.
41:44
I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS IDEA OF EXPOSURE YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT, LOOKING IN EFFECT AND CAUSE DOWN THE ROAD AND WE WILL HAVE FIVE-MINUTE ROUNDS OF QUESTIONS AND MAYBE A SECOND ROUND IF YOU ARE WILLING TO DO IT. WE ARE HERE TODAY TO LOOK UNDER THE HOOD. THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO DO MORE. IN AUGUST, SENATOR BLACKBURN AND I WROTE TO MARK ZUCKERBERG AND ASKED HIM STRAIGHTFORWARD QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THE COMPANY WORKS FOR OUR CHILDREN AND
42:21
TEENAGERS ON INSTAGRAM. FACEBOOK DODGED, SIDETRACKED, IN EFFECT MISLED US. SO I AM GOING TO ASK YOU A FEW STRAIGHTFORWARD QUESTIONS TO BREAK DOWN SOME OF WHAT YOU HAVE SAID COME AND IF YOU CAN ANSWER THEM YES OR NO, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. IS FACEBOOK'S OWN RESEARCH EVER FOUND THAT ITS PLATFORMS CAN HAVE A NEGATIVE EFFECT ON CHILDREN AND TEENS' MENTAL HEALTH OR WELL-BEING? MS. HAUGEN: MANY OF FACEBOOK'S INTERNAL RESEARCH REPORTS
42:55
INDICATE THAT FACEBOOK HAS A SERIOUS NEGATIVE HARM AND A SIGNIFICANT PORTIONS OF YOUNGER CHILDREN. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: HAS FACEBOOK EVER OFFERED FEATURES THAT IT KNEW HAD A NEGATIVE EFFECT ON CHILDREN AND TEENS' MENTAL HEALTH? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK KNOWS THAT ITS AMPLIFICATION ALGORITHMS, CAN LEAD CHILDREN FROM VERY INNOCUOUS TOPICS LIKE HEALTHY RECIPES, ALL THE WAY FROM JUST
43:31
SOMETHING INNOCENT LIKE HEALTHY RECIPES TO ANOREXIA PROMOTING CONTENT OVER A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: HAS FACEBOOK EVER FOUND IN ITS RESEARCH THAT KIDS SHOW SIGNS OF ADDICTION ON INSTAGRAM? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK HAS STUDIED A PATTERN THEY CALL PROBLEMATIC USE, WE MIGHT CALL ADDICTION, IT HAS A VERY HIGH BAR FOR WHAT IT BELIEVES. IT SAYS YOU SELF IDENTIFY AND DON'T HAVE CONTROL OVER USAGE AND IT IS HARMING YOURSELF, YOUR
44:04
SCHOOLWORK OR YOUR PHYSICAL HEALTH. 5% TO 6% OF 14-YEAR-OLDS HAD THE SELF-AWARENESS TO ADMIT BOTH THOSE QUESTIONS. IT IS LIKELY THAT FAR MORE THAN 5% TO 6% OF 14-YEAR-OLDS ARE ADDICTED TO INSTAGRAM. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: LAST THURSDAY, MY COLLEAGUES AND I ASKED MS. DAVIS, WHO WAS REPRESENTING FACEBOOK, ABOUT HOW THE DECISION WAS MADE WHETHER TO PAUSE PERMANENTLY INSTAGRAM FOR KIDS, AND SHE SAID "THERE'S NO ONE PERSON WHO MAKES THE A DECISION
44:37
LIKE THAT. WE THINK ABOUT IT COLLABORATIVELY." IT'S AS THOUGH SHE COULDN'T MENTION MARK ZUCKERBERG'S NAME. ISN'T HE THE ONE WHO WILL BE MAKING THIS DECISION FROM YOUR EXPANSE IN THE COMPANY? MS. HAUGEN: MARK POSES A VERY UNIQUE ROLE IN TECH INDUSTRY AND THAT HE HOLDS OVER 55% OF ALL THE VOTING SHARES FOR FACEBOOK. THERE ARE NO SIMILARLY POWERFUL COMPANIES AS UNILATERALLY CONTROLLED. IN THE END, THE BUCK STOPS WITH MARK.
45:11
NO ONE IS HOLDING HIM ACCOUNTABLE. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: AND HE IS THE ALGORITHM DESIGNER IN CHIEF, CORRECT Q MARK MS. HAUGEN: I -- CORRECT? MS. HAUGEN: I RECEIVED AN MBA FROM HARVARD AND THEY SAID WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ORGANIZATIONS WE BUILD. MARK BUILT ONE THAT IS INTENDED TO BE FLAT. THE METRICS MAKE THE DECISION. THAT ITSELF IS A DECISION AND IN THE END IF HE IS THE CEO AND CHAIRMAN OF FACEBOOK, HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE DECISIONS. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: THE BUCK STOPS
45:49
WITH HIM? MS. HAUGEN: THE BUCK STOPS WITH HIM. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: SPEAKING OF THE BUCK STOPPING, YOU HAVE SAID THAT FACEBOOK SHOULD DECLARE MORAL BANKRUPTCY. I AGREE. ITS ACTIONS AND ITS FAILURE TO ACKNOWLEDGE ITS RESPONSIBILITY INDICATE MORAL BANKRUPTCY. MS. HAUGEN: THERE IS A CYCLE INSIDE THE COMPANY WHERE FACEBOOK HAS STRUGGLED FOR A LONG TIME TO RECRUIT AND OBTAIN THE NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES IT NEEDS TO TACKLE THE LARGE SCOPE OF PROJECTS IT HAS CHOSEN TO TAKE
46:22
ON. FACEBOOK IS IN A CYCLE WHERE IT STRUGGLES TO HIRE AND THAT CAUSES IT TO UNDERSTAND PROJECTS WHICH CAUSES SCANDALS WHICH MAKES IT HARDER TO HIRE. PART OF WHY FACEBOOK NEEDS TO COME OUT AND SAY, WE DID SOMETHING WRONG AND MADE CHOICES WE REGRET IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN MOVE FORWARD AND HEAL FACEBOOK'S FIRST ADMITTING THE TRUTH. THAT WAY WE CAN HAVE RECONCILIATION AND MOVE FORWARD BY FIRST HONEST AND DECLARING MORAL BANKRUPTCY. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: BEING HONEST AT ACKNOWLEDGING FACEBOOK HAS
46:58
CAUSED MORE PAIN SIMPLY TO MAKE MORE MONEY, AND IT HAS PROFITED OFF SPREADING DISINFORMATION AND MISINFORMATION AND SOWING HATE. I THINK FACEBOOK'S ANSWERS TO FACEBOOK'S DESTRUCTIVE IMPACT ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE, OR FACEBOOK. WE NEED MORE FACEBOOK, WHICH MEANS MORE PAIN AND MORE MONEY FOR FACEBOOK. WOULD YOU AGREE? MS. HAUGEN: I DON'T THINK AT ANY POINT FACEBOOK SET OUT TO MAKE A DESTRUCTIVE PLATFORM. I THINK IT IS A CHALLENGE THAT
47:33
FACEBOOK IS AN ORGANIZATION WHERE PARTS OF THE ORGANIZATION RESPONSIBLE FOR GROWING AND EXPANDING THE ORGANIZATION ARE SEPARATE AND NOT WITH THE COMPANIES THAT FOCUS ON THE HARM THE COMPANY IS CAUSING. INTEGRITY ACTIONS, PROJECTS THAT WERE HARD-FOUGHT BY THE TEAMS TRYING TO KEEP A SAFE ARE UNDONE BY NEW GROWTH PROJECTS THAT COUNTERACT THOSE SAME REMEDIES. I DO THINK IT IS A THING OF THERE ARE ORGANIZATIONAL PROBLEMS THAT NEED OVERSIGHT AND FACEBOOK NEEDS HELP IN ORDER TO MOVE FORWARD TO A MORE HEALTHY PLACE. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: AND WHETHER IT
48:09
IS TEENS LEAD INTO SUICIDAL THOUGHTS OR THE GENOCIDE OF ETHNIC MINORITIES AND MEANER -- IN MYANMAR AND FANNING THE FLAMES OF DIVISION IN OUR OWN COUNTRY OR EUROPE, ARE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE IMMORALITY OF THE PAIN IT HAS CAUSED. MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK NEEDS TO TAKE RESPONSIBLY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF ITS CHOICES AND WILLING TO ACCEPT SMALL TRADE-OFFS IN PROFIT. I THINK JUST THAT ACT OF BEING
48:43
ABLE TO ADMIT IT IS A MIXED BAG THAT IS IMPORTANT. WHAT WE SAW LAST WEEK IS THE EXAMPLE OF THE KIND OF BEHAVIOR WE NEED TO SUPPORT FACEBOOK GROWING OUT OF AND INSTEAD OF JUST FOCUSING ON THE GOOD THEY DO, ADMIT RESPONSIBILITY. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: MARK ZUCKERBERG'S NEW POLICY IS NO APOLOGY, NO ADMISSIONS, NO ACKNOWLEDGMENT, NOTHING TO SEE HERE, WE ARE GOING TO DEFLECT IT AND GO SAILING. I TURNED TO THE RANKING MEMBER. CHRM. CANTWELL: THANK YOU FOR
49:20
YOUR TESTIMONY. -- >> I HAD ASKED HER ABOUT UNDERAGE USERS AND SHE MADE THE COMMENT, IF WE FIND AN ACCOUNT OF SOMEONE WHO IS UNDER 13, WE REMOVE THEM. IN THE LAST THREE MONTHS WE REMOVED 1600 ACCOUNTS -- 600,000 ACCOUNTS OF 13-YEAR-OLDS. IT SEEMS TO ME OR IS A PROBLEM
49:53
IF YOU HAVE 600,000 ACCOUNTS FROM CHILDREN WHO ARE -- OUGHT NOT TO BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. WHAT DID MARK ZUCKERBERG KNOW ABOUT THE PLANS TO BRING KIDS ON AS NEW USERS AND ADVERTISE TO THEM? MS. HAUGEN: THERE ARE REPORTS WITHIN FACEBOOK THAT SHOW ANALYSIS WHERE THEY LOOKED AT WHO JOINED FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM AND BASED ON THOSE ANALYSES, FACEBOOK LIKES TO SAY CHILDREN LIE ABOUT THEIR AGES TO
50:28
GET ONTO THE PLATFORM. THE REALITY IS, ENOUGH KIDS TELL THE TRUTH THAT YOU CAN WORK BACKWARDS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE APPROXIMATELY THE REAL AGES OF ANYONE ON THE PLATFORM. WHEN FACEBOOK DOES COHORT ANALYSES RETROSPECTIVELY AND DISCOVERS THINGS LIKE 10% TO 15% OF 10 EUROS MAY ON FACEBOOK OR INSTAGRAM. SEN. BLACKBURN: THIS IS WHY THE CEO OF INSTAGRAM WOULD HAVE REPLIED WHEN IT WAS SAID TO HIM,
51:03
I HAVE BEEN ON INSTAGRAM SINCE I WAS EIGHT HE SAID HE DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW THAT. IT WOULD BE FOR THIS REASON, CORRECT? MS. HAUGEN: A PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR THAT I SAW AT FACEBOOK WAS THAT OFTEN PROBLEMS WERE UNDERSTAFFED THAT THERE WAS DISCOURAGEMENT FROM HAVING BETTER DETECTION SYSTEMS. MY LAST TEAM WAS ON THE COUNTERESPIONAGE TEAM. AT ANY GIVEN TIME OUR TEAM COULD ONLY AND ONLY ONE THIRD OF THE CASES THAT WE KNEW ABOUT. WE KNEW THAT IF WE BUILD EVEN A
51:41
BASIC DETECTOR WE WOULD HAVE MANY MORE CASES. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: LET ME ASK YOU THIS -- SO YOU LOOK AT THE WAY THEY HAVE THE DATA, BUT THEY ARE CHOOSING TO KEEP THAT DATA AND ADVERTISE FROM IT, SELL IT TO THIRD PARTIES. SO WHAT DOES FACEBOOK DO? YOU HAVE 600,000 ACCOUNTS THAT OUGHT NOT TO BE ON THERE -- MS. HAUGEN: MANY MORE.
52:12
CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: RIGHT, YOU DELETE THE ACCOUNT BUT WHAT HAPPENS TO THE DATA? DO THEY KEEP IT UNTIL THOSE CHILDREN GO TO AGE 13, BECAUSE YOU ARE SAYING THEY CAN WORK BACKWARD AND FIGURE OUT THE TRUE AGE OF A USER? SO WHAT DO THEY DO WITH IT? DO THEY DELETE IT, DO THEY STORE IT, DO THEY KEEP IT? MS. HAUGEN: MY UNDERSTANDING OF FACEBOOK'S POLICIES, AND I DID NOT WORK DIRECTLY ON THAT, IS THAT WHEN THEY DELETE ACCOUNT
52:48
THEY DELETE ALL OF THE DATA. WITH REGARD TO CHILDREN UNDER AGE ON THE PLATFORM, FACE BOOK WOULD DO SUBSTANTIALLY MORE TO DETECT THOSE CHILDREN AND SHOULD HAVE TO DISCLOSE TO CONGRESS THOSE PROCESSES BECAUSE THERE ARE LOTS OF SUBTLETIES IN THOSE PROCESSES. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: STAYING WITH THIS UNDERAGE KIDS AND ONLINE PRIVACY, I WANT YOU TO TELL ME
53:21
HOW FACEBOOK IS ABLE TO DO MARKET RESEARCH ON THESE CHILDREN THAT ARE UNDER AGE, BECAUSE MS. DAVIS DIDN'T DENY THIS LAST WEEK. DO THEY BRING KIDS INTO FOCUS GROUPS WITH THEIR PARENTS? HOW DO THEY GET THAT INFORMATION. SHE SAID THEY GOT PERMISSION FROM PARENTS. IS THERE A PERMISSION SLIP OR A FORM THAT GETS ASSIGNED AND THEN HOW DO THEY KNOW WHICH KIDS TO
53:57
TARGET? MS. HAUGEN: THERE IS BUNCH TO UNPACK THERE. MOST TECH COMPANIES HAVE THE SYSTEMS WHERE THEY CAN ANALYZE THE DATA THAT IS ON THEIR SERVERS AND MOST OF THE FOCUS GROUPS I READ OR THAT SAW THOSE WERE AROUND MESSENGER KIDS, WHICH HAS CHILDREN ON IT. THOSE FOCUS GROUPS APPEAR TO BE CHILDREN INTERACTING IN PERSON.
54:32
OFTEN COMPANIES USE SOURCING AGENCIES THAT WILL GO AND IDENTIFY PEOPLE WHO MEET CERTAIN DEMOGRAPHIC CRITERIA OR WILL REACH OUT DIRECTLY BASED ON DATA ON THE PLATFORM. SO THE CASE IN MESSENGER KIDS, MAYBE YOU WOULD WANT TO STUDY A CHILD THAT WAS ACTIVE AND WHEN THAT WAS LESS ACTIVE. SEN. BLACKBURN: SO THESE ARE CHILDREN UNDER AGE 13? MS. HAUGEN: YES. SEN. BLACKBURN: AND THEY KNOW IT. MS. HAUGEN: FOR SOME OF THEM, AND ICING THEY GET PERMISSION. SEN. BLACKBURN: WE ARE STILL WAITING TO GET A COPY OF THAT
55:08
PARENTAL CONSENT FORM THAT WOULD INVOLVE CHILDREN. MY TIME IS EXPIRED. I WILL SAY MY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR A SECOND ROUND. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: THANK YOU. SENATOR KLOBUCHAR? SEN. KLOBUCHAR: THANK YOU FOR SHINING A LIGHT ON HOW FACEBOOK TIME AND TIME AGAIN HAS PUT PROFIT OVER PEOPLE. WHEN THEIR OWN RESEARCH FOUND THAT MORE THAN 13% OF TEEN GIRLS SAY THAT INSTAGRAM MADE THEIR THOUGHTS WORSE, THEY PROPOSED INSTAGRAM FOR KIDS WHICH HAS NOW BEEN PUT ON PAUSE.
55:43
WHEN THEY FOUND OUT THE ALGORITHMS ARE FOSTERING POLARIZATION, MISINFORMATION, AND HATE THAT THEY ALLOWED 99% OF THEIR VIOLENT CONTENT TO REMAIN UNCHECKED ON THEIR PLATFORM, INCLUDING LEAD UP TO THE JANUARY 6 INSURRECTION, WHAT DO THEY DO? THEY NOW, AS WE KNOW, MARK ZUCKERBERG IS GOING SAILING AND SAY NO APOLOGIES. I THINK THE TIME HAS COME FOR ACTION. I THINK YOU ARE THE CATALYST FOR THAT ACTION. YOU HAVE SAID PRIVACY LEGISLATION IS NOT ENOUGH.
56:17
I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU. I THINK YOU KNOW WE HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING TO UPDATE PRIVACY LAWS, FEDERAL PRIVACY LAWS, NOTHING, ZILCH, IN ANY MAJOR WAY. WIFE QUESTION MARK BECAUSE THERE ARE LOBBYISTS -- WHY? BECAUSE THERE ARE LOBBYISTS ALL AROUND THE BUILDING HIRED BY THE TECH COMPANIES. FACEBOOK AND THE OTHER TECH COMPANIES ARE THROWING A BUNCH OF MONEY AROUND THIS TOWN AND PEOPLE ARE LISTENING TO THEM. WE HAVE DONE NOTHING SIGNIFICANT BUT WE ARE ON A BIPARTISAN BASIS WORKING ON AN ANTITRUST
56:56
SUBCOMMITTEE TO GET SOMETHING DONE ON CONSOLIDATION, TO UNDERSTAND ALLOWS THE DOMINANT PLATFORM TO CONTROL ALL THIS, LET THE BULLIES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BY OUT THE COMPANIES THAT MAY HAVE -- BUY OUT THE COMPANIES THAT COMPETE WITH THEM. THE SAFETY HAD OF FACEBOOK WHO TESTIFIED LAST WEEK, I ASK HER HOW THEY ESTIMATE THE LIFETIME VALUE OF A USER FOR KIDS WHO START USING PRODUCTS BEFORE 13. SHE EVADED THE QUESTION AND SAID THAT IS NOT THE WAY WE THINK ABOUT IT.
57:31
IS THAT RIGHT, OR IS IT YOUR EXPENSE AT FACEBOOK ESTIMATES AND PUTS A VALUE ON HOW MUCH MONEY THEY GET FROM USERS IN GENERAL? IS THAT A MOTIVATING FORCE FOR THEM? MS. HAUGEN: BASED ON WHAT I SAW IN TERMS OF ALLOCATION OF INTEGRITY FUNDING, ONE OF THE THINGS EXPOSED WAS 87% OF ALL MISINFORMATION SPENDING IS ON ENGLISH ONLY 9% ARE ENGLISH SPEAKERS. IT SEEMS THAT FACEBOOK INVEST MORE IN USERS WHO MAKE THE MORE
58:06
MONEY, EVEN THOUGH THE DANGER MAY NOT BE EVENLY DISTRIBUTED. SEN. KLOBUCHAR: DOES IT MAKE SENSE HAVING A YOUNGER PERSON HOOKED ON SOCIAL MEDIA AT A YOUNG AGE MAKES THEM MORE PROFITABLE OVER THE LONG TERM? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK'S INTERNAL DOCUMENTS TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF GETTING YOUNGER USERS, TWEEN'S, ON INSTAGRAM, LIKE INSTAGRAM KIDS, BECAUSE THEY NEED TO HAVE -- THEY KNOW CHILDREN BRING THEIR PARENTS ONLINE AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND THEY UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF
58:38
USERS FOR THE LONG-TERM SUCCESS. SEN. KLOBUCHAR: THEY ESTIMATED TO BE DOING DOLLARS $.58 PER USER LAST QUARTER -- $51.58 PER USER LAST QUARTER AND WHEN I ASKED THEM HOW MANY OF THAT WAS FOR UNDER 18 AND SHE WOULDN'T ANSWER. DO YOU THINK TEENS ARE PROFITABLE? MS. HAUGEN: I WOULD ASSUME SO, BASED ON ADVERTISING OR TELEVISION. I AM SURE THEY ARE SOME OF THE MORE PROFITABLE USERS BUT I DID NOT WORK DIRECTLY ON THAT. SEN. KLOBUCHAR: ANOTHER ISSUE
59:16
HAS BEEN EATING DISORDERS. STUDIES HAVE FOUND THAT EATING DISORDERS HAVE THE HIGHEST MORTALITY RATE OF ANY MENTAL ILLNESS FOR WOMEN. I LED A BILL ON THIS THAT WE PASSED INTO LAW AND I AM CONCERNED THAT THE ALGORITHMS THEY HAVE PUSHES OUTRAGEOUS CONTENT, PROMOTING ANOREXIA AND THE LIKE. I KNOW IT IS PERSONAL TO YOU. DO YOU THINK THE ALGORITHMS PUSH SOME OF THIS CONTENT TO YOUNG GIRLS? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK KNOWS THE ENGAGEMENT BANKED -- THE
59:49
ENGAGEMENT BASE USERS AMPLIFIES PREFERENCES AND THEY HAVE DONE SOMETHING CALLED A PROACTIVE RESPONSE, WHERE THEY TAKE THINGS THEY HAVE HEARD, FOR EXAMPLE THINGS LIKE, CAN YOU BE LED BY THE ALGORITHMS TO ANOREXIA CONTENT AND THEY CONFIRMED THAT YES, THIS HAPPENS TO PEOPLE. FACEBOOK KNOWS THEY ARE LEADING YOUNG USERS TO ANOREXIA CONTENT. SEN. KLOBUCHAR: DO YOU THINK THEY ARE DESIGNING THEIR PRODUCTS TO BE ADDICTIVE? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK HAS A LONG HISTORY OF HAVING A SUCCESSFUL
01:00:26
GROWTH DIVISION WHERE THEY TAKE TINY TWEAKS AND CONSTANTLY AND CONSTANTLY ARE TRYING TO OPTIMIZE IT TO GROW. THOSE KINDS COULD BE CONSTRUED AS THINGS THAT FACILITATE ADDICTION. SEN. KLOBUCHAR: WE HAVE SEEN THE SAME KIND OF CONTENT IN THE POLITICAL WORLD YOU BROUGHT UP OTHER COUNTRIES AND WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING PERIOD 60 MINUTES, YOU SAID FACEBOOK IMPLEMENTED SAFEGUARDS TO REDUCE MISINFORMATION AHEAD OF THE 2020 ELECTION, BUT TURNED OFF THOSE SAFEGUARDS RIGHT AFTER THE ELECTION. YOU KNOW THAT THE INSURRECTION
01:01:01
HAPPENED JANUARY 6. DO YOU THINK FACEBOOK TURNED OFF THE SAFEGUARDS BECAUSE THEY WERE COSTING MONEY BECAUSE IT WAS REDUCING PROFITS? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK WAS EMPHASIZING A FALSE CHOICE THIS HAD THE SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE BEFORE THE ELECTION IMPLICATED FREE SPEECH P THE CHOICES THAT WERE HAPPENING ON THE PLATFORM WORK ABOUT HOW REACTIVE -- FREE SPEECH. THE CHOICES THAT WERE HAPPENING ON THE PLATFORM OR ABOUT HOW REACTIVE WAS IT. IN THE RUNOFF -- RUN UP TO THE ELECTION, THEY KNEW THEY WERE DANGEROUS.
01:01:36
BECAUSE THEY WANTED THAT BACK AFTER THE ELECTION, THEY RETURNED TO THE ORIGINAL DEFAULTS. THE FACT THAT THEY HAD TO BREAK THE GLASS AND TURN THEM BACK ON, I THINK THAT IS DEEPLY PROBLEMATIC. SEN. KLOBUCHAR: I AGREE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR BRAVERY IN COMING FORWARD. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: -- >> I HAVE BEEN ARGUING FOR SOME TIME THAT IT IS TIME FOR CONGRESS TO ACT. I THINK THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THE CORRECT WEIGHT TO DO IT, THE RIGHT WEIGHT TO DO IT CAN -- THE
01:02:10
RIGHT WAY TO DO IT CONSISTENT WITH OUR RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH. THIS COMMITTEE DOESN'T HAVE JURISDICTION OVER THE ANTITRUST ISSUE. I'M NOT AVERSE TO LOOK INTO THE MONOPOLISTIC NATURE OF FACEBOOK. THAT IS A REAL ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE EXAMINED AND ADDRESSED. THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS I THINK WE CAN DO. I HAVE A PIECE OF LEGISLATION WITH COSPONSORS CALL THE FILTER BUBBLE TRANSPARENCY ACT. IT WOULD GIVE USERS THE OPTIONS TO ENGAGE WITH SOCIAL MEDIA
01:02:45
PLATFORMS WITHOUT BEING MANIPULATED BY THE SECRET FORMULAS THAT ESSENTIALLY DICTATE THE CONTENT THAT YOU SEE WHEN YOU OPEN UP AN APP OR LOG ONTO A WEBSITE. WE ALSO NEED TO HOLD BIG TECH ACCOUNTABLE BY REFORMING SECTION 230. ONE OF THE BEST OPPORTUNITIES TO DO THAT IN A BIPARTISAN WAY IS THE PLATFORM ACCOUNTABILITY CONSUMER TRANSPARENCY ACT. THAT, IN ADDITION TO STRIPPING SECTION 230 PROTECTIONS FOR CONTENT THAT IS ILLEGAL, IT
01:03:20
WOULD ALSO INCREASE TRANSPARENCY AND DUE PROCESS FOR USERS IMPORTANTLY, IN THE CONTEXT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TODAY WITH THIS HEARING WITH A BIG TECH WHISTLEBLOWER, THE PACK ACT WOULD EXPLORE THE VIABILITY OF A PROGRAM BIG TECH EMPLOYEES TO BLOW THE WHISTLE ON WRONGDOING INSIDE COMPANIES WHERE THEY WORK. WE SHOULD ENCOURAGE EMPLOYEES IN THE TECH SECTOR LIKE YOU TO SPEAK UP ABOUT QUESTIONABLE PRACTICES AND BIG TECH COMPANIES. WE CAN ENSURE AMERICANS ARE SURE OF HOW SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS
01:03:56
ARE USING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TO KEEP THEM HOOKED ON PLATFORMS. LET ME JUST ASK YOU, THE INFORMATION YOU PROVIDED THAT FACEBOOK CONDUCTS WHAT IS CALLED ENGAGEMENT BASED RANKING, WHICH YOU HAVE DESCRIBED AS VERY DANGEROUS. COULD YOU TALK MORE ABOUT WHY ENGAGEMENT BASED RANKING IS DANGEROUS AND DO YOU THINK CONGRESS SHOULD SEEK TO PASS LEGISLATION LIKE THE FILTER BUBBLE TRANSPARENCY ACT THAT WOULD GIVE USERS THE ABILITY TO AVOID ENGAGEMENT BASED RANKING ALTOGETHER? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK IS GOING TO
01:04:29
SAY YOU DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP ENGAGEMENT BASED RANKING. YOU WILL NOT LIKE FACEBOOK AS MUCH IF WE ARE NOT SEEKING OUT THE CONTENT FOR YOU. THAT IS JUST NOT TRUE. FACEBOOK LIKES TO PRESENT THINGS AS FALSE CHOICES. LET'S SAY WE ORDERED BY TIME LIKE I MESSAGE OR OTHER FORMS OF SOCIAL MEDIA THAT ARE CHRONOLOGICALLY BASED. YOU WILL GET SPAMMED, YOU WILL NOT ENJOY YOUR FEED. THE REALITY IS THOSE EXPERIENCES HAVE LOTS OF PERMUTATIONS. THERE ARE WAYS WHERE COMPUTERS
01:05:07
DON'T REGULATE WHAT WE SEE. WE SOCIALLY REGULATE WHAT WE SEE. THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION. FACEBOOK KNOWS WHEN THEY TAKE OUT THEIR CONTENT THAT WE FOCUS ON, WE SPEND MORE TIME ON THEIR PLATFORM, THEY MAKE MORE MONEY. THE DANGERS OF ENGAGEMENT BASED RANKING ARE FACEBOOK KNOWS CONTENT THAT ELICITS AN EXTREME REACTION IS MORE LIKELY TO GET A CLICK, COMMENT, OR RE-SHARE. THOSE AREN'T EVEN NECESSARILY FOR YOUR BENEFIT. THEY KNOW OTHER PEOPLE WILL PRODUCE MORE CONTENT IF THEY GET
01:05:45
THE LIKES, COMMENTS, AND RE-SHARES. THEY POST THE CONTENT SO YOU WILL GET LITTLE HINTS OF DOPAMINE TO YOUR FRIENDS TO CREATE MORE CONTENT. THEY HAVE RUN EXPERIENCE -- EXPERIMENTS ON PEOPLE WHERE THEY HAVE CONFIRMED THIS. SEN. THUNE: THE INFORMATION YOU PROVIDED TO THE WALL STREET JOURNAL SAID FACEBOOK ALTERNATE ALGORITHM TO BOOST THESE MSI. THE ALGORITHM REWARDED MORE
01:06:20
OUTRAGED AND SENSATIONALISM. FACEBOOK WOULD SAY IT'S ALGORITHMS ARE USED TO CONNECT INDIVIDUALS AND FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT ARE LARGELY POSITIVE. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT FACEBOOK'S ALGORITHMS MAKE ITS PLATFORM A BETTER PLACE FOR MOST USERS? SHOULD CONSUMERS HAVE THE OPTION TO HAVE THE USE OF FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM WITHOUT THE MANIPULATED BY ALGORITHMS DESIGNED TO KEEP THEM ENGAGED? MS. HAUGEN: I STRONGLY BELIEVE -- I HAVE SPENT MOST OF MY CAREER ON ENGAGEMENT BASED RANKINGS. ENGAGEMENT BASED RANKINGS,
01:06:56
FACEBOOK SAYS WE COULD DO IT SAFELY BECAUSE WE HAVE AI. THE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE WILL FIND THAT CONTENT THAT WE KNOW OUR ENGAGEMENT BASED RANKINGS IS PROMOTING. THEY KNOW IT IS DANGEROUS. THE AI WILL SAY LESS. FACEBOOK'S OWN RESEARCH SAYS THEY CANNOT ADEQUATELY IDENTIFY DANGEROUS CONTENT. THERE ARE DANGEROUS ALGORITHMS THEY ADMIT ARE PICKING UP THE EXTREME SENTIMENT POSITION. THEY CANNOT PROTECT US FROM THE HARM THEY KNOW EXISTS IN THEIR OWN SYSTEM. SHOULD PEOPLE HAVE THE OPTION OF
01:07:33
CHOOSING TO NOT BE MANIPULATED, I THINK IF WE HAD APPROPRIATE OVERSIGHT OR IF WE REFORMED 230 TO MAKE FACEBOOK RESPONSIBLE FOR THE INTENTIONAL RANKING DECISIONS -- I THINK THEY WOULD GET RID OF THE ENGAGEMENT BASED RANKING. IT IS CAUSING TEENAGERS TO BE EXPOSED TO MORE ANOREXIA CONTENT. IT IS PULLING FAMILIES APART. IN PLACES LIKE ETHIOPIA IT IS SPANNING VIOLENCE. I ENCOURAGE UPDATES TO THESE PLATFORMS. NOT PICKING AND CHOOSING INDIVIDUAL IDEAS. MAKING THE IDEAS SAFER, LESS
01:08:11
TWITCHY, LESS VIRAL. THAT IS HOW WE SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS. SEN. THUNE: I WOULD SIMPLY SAY LET'S GET TO WORK HERE. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: I AGREE. SEN. SCHATZ: THANK YOU FOR YOUR COURAGE IN COMING FORWARD. WAS THERE A MOMENT WHEN YOU CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT REFORM FROM THE INSIDE WAS IMPOSSIBLE AND YOU DECIDED TO BE A WHISTLEBLOWER? MS. HAUGEN: THERE WAS A LONG
01:08:46
SERIES OF MOMENTS WHERE I BECAME AWARE THAT FACEBOOK CONSISTENTLY CHOSE TO PRIORITIZE ITS PROFITS OVER PUBLIC SAFETY. THE MOMENT THAT I REALIZED WE NEEDED TO GET HELP FROM THE OUTSIDE, THE ONLY WAY THESE PROBLEMS WOULD BE SOLVED IS BY SOLVING THEM TOGETHER AND NOT SOLVING THEM ALONE WAS WHEN INTEGRITY WAS FAULT -- DISSOLVED FOLLOWING THE ELECTION. IT FELT LIKE A BETRAYAL OF THE PROMISES FACEBOOK HAD MADE. PEOPLE WHO SACRIFICED A GREAT DEAL TO KEEP THE ELECTION SAFE BY DISSOLVING OUR COMMUNITY AND INTEGRATE OTHER PARTS OF THE
01:09:22
COMPANY. SEN. SCHATZ: I KNOW THE RESPONSE WAS THEY DISTRIBUTED THE DUTY, THAT IS AN EXCUSE, RIGHT? MS. HAUGEN: I CANNOT SEE INTO THE HEARTS OF OTHER MEN. SEN. SCHATZ: LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY, IT WILL WORK, RIGHT? MS. HAUGEN: THE PEOPLE WHO I WORK WITH WERE MAYBE 75% OF MY POD -- PRODUCT MANAGERS, MOST OF THEM CAME FROM INTEGRITY.
01:09:57
ALL OF US LEFT THE INAUTHENTIC BEHAVIOR POD FOR OTHER PARTS OF THE COMPANY OR THE COMPANY ENTIRELY OVER THE SAME PERIOD. SIX MONTHS AFTER, WE CLEARLY LOST FAITH THAT THOSE CHANGES WERE COMING. SEN. SCHATZ: YOU SAID IN YOUR OPENING STATEMENT THAT THEY KNOW HOW TO MAKE FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM SAFER. YOU ARE NOW THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFER -- OFFICER AND CHAIRMAN OF THE COMPANY, WHAT GERMANS WOULD -- WHAT CHANGES WOULD YOU IMMEDIATELY INSTITUTE? MS. HAUGEN: I WOULD ESTABLISH A POLICY OF HOW TO SHARE
01:10:32
INFORMATION AND RESEARCH FROM INSIDE THE COMPANY WITH APPROPRIATE OVERSIGHT BODIES. I WOULD GIVE PROPOSED LEGISLATION TO CONGRESS SAYING HERE'S WHAT APPROPRIATE OVERSIGHT WOULD LOOK LIKE. I WOULD ACTIVELY ENGAGE WITH ACADEMICS TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE CONFIRMING FACEBOOK'S MARKETING MESSAGE IS TRUE HAS THE INFORMATION THEY NEED. I WOULD IMMEDIATELY IMPLEMENT THE SOFT INTERVENTIONS TO PROTECT THE 2020 ELECTION. THINGS LIKE REQUIRING SOMEONE TO CLICK ON THE LINK BEFORE RE-SHARING IT. COMPANIES LIKE TWITTER HAVE
01:11:09
FOUND THAT SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCES MISINFORMATION. SEN. SCHATZ: I WANT TO PIVOT BACK TO INSTAGRAM'S TARGETING OF KIDS. WE ALL KNOW THEY ANNOUNCED A PAUSE. THAT REMINDS ME OF WHAT THEY ANNOUNCED WHEN THEY WERE GOING TO ISSUE A DIGITAL CURRENCY. THEY GOT BEAT OUT BY THE U.S. SENATE BANKING COMMITTEE AND SAID NEVER MIND. NOW THEY ARE COMING BACK AROUND HOPING NOBODY NOTICES THAT THEY ARE GOING TO TRY TO ISSUE A CURRENCY. FOR THE MOMENT, THE BUSINESS MODEL WHICH APPEARS TO BE
01:11:51
GOBBLED UP EVERYTHING, DO EVERYTHING, THAT IS THE STRATEGY. DO YOU BELIEVE THEY ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO DISCONTINUE INSTAGRAM KIDS OR ARE THEY WAITING FOR THE DUST TO SETTLE? MS. HAUGEN: I WOULD BE SINCERELY SURPRISED IF THEY DO NOT CONTINUE WORKING ON INSTAGRAM KIDS. I WOULD BE AMAZED IF WE DON'T HAVE THIS CONVERSATION AGAIN. SEN. SCHATZ: WHY? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK UNDERSTANDS IF THEY WANT TO CONTINUE TO GROW THEY HAVE TO FIND USERS. THEY HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE NEXT GENERATION IS JUST AS ENGAGED WITH INSTAGRAM AS THE CURRENT ONE. THE WAY THEY WILL DO THAT IS BY
01:12:27
MAKING SURE CHILDREN ESTABLISH HABITS. SEN. SCHATZ: BY HOOKING KIDS? MS. HAUGEN: BY HOOKING KIDS. I WOULD LIKE TO EMPHASIZE ONE OF THE DOCUMENTS WE SENT IN EXAMINE THE RATES OF PROBLEMATIC USE BY AGE. THAT PEAKED WITH 14-YEAR-OLDS. TEENAGERS DO NOT HAVE THE SELF-REGULATION. I FEEL BAD WHEN I USE INSTAGRAM AND I CANNOT STOP. WE NEED TO PROTECT IT. SEN. SCHATZ: I HAVE A LONG LIST OF MIS-DIRECTION'S AND OUTRIGHT LIES FROM THE COMPANY.
01:13:06
I DON'T OF TIME TO READ THEM. YOU ARE AS INTIMATE WITH ALL OF THESE DECEPTIONS AS I AM. I WILL JUMP TO THE END. IF YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THIS PANEL, WOULD YOU BELIEVE WHAT FACEBOOK IS SAYING? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK HAS NOT EARNED THE RIGHT TO STILL HAVE BLIND TRUST. ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THINGS I HEARD ON THE COMMITTEE LAST WEEK WAS TRUST IS EARNED AND FACEBOOK HAS NOT EARNED OUR TRUST. SEN. SCHATZ: THANK YOU. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: THANK YOU,
01:13:44
SENATOR MORAN AND THEN WE HAVE JOINED BY THE CHAIR. WE WILL BREAK AT ABOUT 11:30 IF THAT IS OK BECAUSE WE HAVE A VOTE. THEN WE WILL RECONVENE. SEN. -- >> AS SENATOR THUNE SAID, LET'S GO TO WORK. >> OUR DIFFERENCES ARE VERY MINOR IN THE FACE OF REVELATIONS THAT WE HAVE NOW SEEN. I HOPE WE COULD MOVE FORWARD.
01:14:20
>> I SHARE THAT VIEW, THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY. WHAT EXAMPLES DO YOU KNOW? WE TALK ABOUT CHILDREN, TEENAGE GIRL SPECIFICALLY. ONE OTHER EXAMPLES DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT FACEBOOK OR INSTAGRAM NEW ITS WOULD BE HARMFUL TO ACCUSERS BUT STILL PROCEEDED WITH THE PLAN AND EXECUTED THOSE HARMFUL BEHAVIORS. MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK'S RESEARCH
01:14:54
IS AWARE THAT -- THEY KNOW SEVERE HARM IS HAPPENING TO CHILDREN. IN THE CASE OF BULLYING, FACEBOOK KNOWS THAT INSTAGRAM DRAMATICALLY CHANGES THE EXPERIENCE OF HIGH SCHOOL. WE WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL -- WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL. MOST KIDS COULD GO HOME AND
01:15:30
RESET FOR 16 HOURS. KIDS WHO ARE BULLIED ON INSTAGRAM IT FOLLOWS THEM HOME INTO THEIR BEDROOM. THE LAST THING THEY SEE BEFORE THEY GO TO BED IS SOMEONE BEING CRUEL TO THEM OR THE FIRST THING THEY SEE IN THE MORNING IS SOMEONE BEING CRUEL TO THEM. KIDS ARE LEARNING THAT THEIR OWN FRIENDS ARE CRUEL TO THEM. CLICK ABOUT HOW THIS COULD IMPACT THEIR DOMESTICS RELATIONSHIPS. FACEBOOK KNOWS BECAUSE THEY GIVE
01:16:08
CHILDREN BAD ADVICE. FACEBOOK'S OWN RESEARCH IS AWARE THAT THEY ARE STRUGGLING WITH THESE THINGS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T EVEN GET SUPPORT FROM THEIR OWN PARENTS. I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW FACEBOOK COULD KNOW ALL OF THESE THINGS AND NOT ESCALATE WITH HELP AND SUPPORT FROM ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS. SEN. MORAN: ARE THERE OTHER PRACTICES THAT ARE KNOWN TO BE HARMED?
01:16:47
MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK IS AWARE THE CHOICES IT MADE IN MEANINGFUL SOCIAL INTERACTIONS, ENGAGEMENT BASED RANKINGS THAT DID NOT CARE IF YOU BULLIED SOMEONE, THAT WAS MEANINGFUL. THEY KNOW THAT CHANGE DIRECTLY CHANGED PUBLISHERS BEHAVIOR. COMPANIES RODE IN AND SAID THE CONTENT IS MOST SUCCESSFUL ON OUR PLATFORM. YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOUR RANKING AND THEY DID NOTHING. POLITICIANS ARE FORCED, THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE DISTRIBUTED ON FACEBOOK. THAT IS A HUGE NEGATIVE IMPACT.
01:17:28
THEY HAVE ADMITTED IN PUBLIC THAT ENGAGEMENT BASED RANKINGS HAVE NOT ROLLED OUT THOSE INTEGRITY AND SECURITY SYSTEMS OF MOST OF THE LANGUAGES IN THE WORLD. THAT IS CAUSING THINGS LIKE ETHNIC BALANCE IN ETHIOPIA. SEN. MORAN: WHAT IS THE MAGNITUDE OF FACEBOOK'S REVENUES OR PROFITS THAT COME FROM THE SALE OF USER DATA? MS. HAUGEN: WE HAVEN'T WORKED ON THAT, I AM NOT AWARE. SEN. MORAN: WHAT REGULATIONS OR LEGAL ACTIONS DO YOU THINK WOULD
01:18:05
HAVE THE MOST CONSEQUENCE OR BE FEARED MOST BY FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, OR ALIGNED COMPANIES. MS. HAUGEN: I ENCOURAGE REFORMING SECTION 230, DECISIONS ABOUT ALGORITHMS. MODIFIED 230 AROUND CONTENT. IT IS VERY COMPLICATED BECAUSE YOU CAN GENERATE CONTENT IS SOMETHING COMPANIES HAVE LESS CONTROL OVER. THEY HAVE 100% CONTROL OVER ALGORITHM. FACEBOOK SHOULD NOT GET A FREE PASS ON CHOICES IT MAKES WITH GROWTH, VIRALITY, REACTIVE NEST
01:18:42
OVER PUBLIC SAFETY. THEY SHOULD NOT GET A FREE PASS. THEY ARE PAYING FOR THEIR PROFITS RIGHT NOW WITH OUR SAFETY. I ALSO BELIEVE THERE NEEDS TO BE A DEDICATED OVERSIGHT BODY. RIGHT NOW, THE ONLY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD TRADE TO ANALYZE THESE EXPERIENCE ARE PEOPLE WHO GREW UP INSIDE OF FACEBOOK OR OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES. THERE NEEDS TO BE A REGULATORY HOME WHERE SOMEONE LIKE ME COULD DO A TOUR OF DUTY AFTER WORKING AT A PLACE LIKE THIS. HAVE A PLACE TO WORK ON THINGS LIKE REGULATION TO BRING THAT OUT TO OVERSIGHT BOARDS AND HAVE
01:19:18
THE RIGHT TO DO OVERSIGHT. SEN. MORAN: A REGULATORY AGENCY WITHIN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT? MS. HAUGEN: YES. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: SENATOR CANTWELL. SEN. CANTWELL: THANK YOU FOR HOLDING THE STEERING. I WANT TO CONTINUE ON THAT BASE. THE PRIVACY ACT THAT INTRODUCED ALONG WITH SEVERAL OF MY COLLEAGUES ACTUALLY DOES HAVE FTC OVERSIGHT OF ALGORITHM TRANSPARENCY. IN SOME INSTANCES I HOPE YOU LOOK AT THAT AND TELL US WHAT OTHER AREAS YOU THINK WE SHOULD ADD TO THAT LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY.
01:19:55
CLEARLY, THAT IS THE ISSUE AT HAND HERE. COMING FORWARD, THANK YOU FOR YOUR WILLINGNESS TO DO THAT. THE DOCUMENTATION THAT YOU SAY EXISTS GIVES THE LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON THAT PEOPLE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO SEE. YOUR INFORMATION THAT YOU SAY IS GOING UP TO THE HIGHEST LEVELS AT FACEBOOK IS THAT DAY PURPOSELY NEW THAT THEIR ALGORITHMS WERE CONTINUING TO HAVE MISINFORMATION AND HATE INFORMATION. THAT WHEN PRESENTED WITH INFORMATION ABOUT THIS
01:20:32
TERMINOLOGY FOR THE DOWNSTREAM MSI INCLUDES SOCIAL INFORMATION KNOWING THAT IT WAS THIS CHOICE TO CONTINUE THIS WRONG INFORMATION, HATE INFORMATION ABOUT THE ROHINGYA OR YOU COULD CONTINUE TO GET HIGHER RATES. I KNOW YOU KNOW THAT ON A PAGE IF YOU CLICK THROUGH THE NEXT PAGE I'M PRETTY SURE THERE'S A LOT MORE THEN IF YOU DIDN'T CLICK THROUGH. YOU'RE SAYING THE DOCUMENTS EXIST, THE HIGHEST LEVEL AT FACEBOOK, YOU HAVE INFORMATION DISCUSSING THESE CHOICES AND THAT PEOPLE CHOSE, EVEN THEY
01:21:10
THAT -- EVEN THOUGH THEY KNEW IT WAS MISINFORMATION, THEY CONTINUED TO CHOOSE PROFIT. MS. HAUGEN: WE CONTINUE -- WE SUBMITTED DOCUMENTS TO CONGRESS. MARK ZUCKERBERG WAS PRESENTED WITH THIS PEER TO HARD INTERVENTION IS TAKING A USER FACEBOOK. SOFT INTERVENTIONS ARE ABOUT MAKING DIFFERENT CHOICES TO MAKE IT LESS VIRAL, LESS TWITCHY. MARK WAS PRESENTED WITH THESE OPTIONS AND CHOSE TO NOT REMOVE DOWNSTREAM MSI IN APRIL, 2020
01:21:43
EVEN THOUGH IT IS ISOLATED IN AT-RISK COUNTRIES. IF IT HAD ANY IMPACT ON THE OVERALL MSI METRIC. SO SEN. CANTWELL: WHICH MEANS IN TURN LESS MONEY? IS THERE ANOTHER REASON WHY YOU WOULD DO IT ALTHOUGH IT REALLY WOULD AFFECT YOUR NUMBERS? MS. HAUGEN: I DON'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN. WE STRUGGLED READING THESE MINUTES, HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? WE JUST READ 100 PAGES ON HOW DANCE -- DOWNSTREAM MSI EXPANDS
01:22:22
HATE SPEECH, GRAPHIC VIOLENT CONTENT. WHY WOULDN'T YOU GET RID OF THIS? THE BEST THEORY THAT WE CAME UP WITH, THIS WAS JUST OUR INTERPRETATION. PEOPLE STAY OR LEAVE THE COMPANY BASED ON WHAT THEY GET PAID AND IF YOU HURT MSI, A BUNCH OF PEOPLE WERE NOT GOING TO GET BONUSES. SEN. CANTWELL: I'M PERSONALLY VERY FRUSTRATED BECAUSE WE PRESENTED INFORMATION TO FACEBOOK FROM ONE OF MY OWN CONSTITUENTS IN 2018 TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE WITH THE ROHINGYA, PLEADING WITH THE COMPANY.
01:23:04
WE PLEADED WITH THE COMPANY AND THEY CONTINUED TO NOT ADDRESS THIS ISSUE. NOW YOU ARE POINTING OUT THESE SAME ALGORITHMS ARE BEING USED AND THEY KNOW DARN WELL THAT IT IS CAUSING AND INCITING VIOLENCE. THEY ARE TODAY CHOOSING PROFIT OVER THIS INFORMATION. MS. HAUGEN: IN THE SUMMER OF LAST YEAR THEY TURNED OFF DOWNSTREAM MSI ONLY WHEN THE CONTENT -- FACEBOOK'S OWN ALGORITHMS ARE BAD AT FINDING CONTENT.
01:23:39
80% OR 90% OF EVEN THAT SENSITIVE CONTENT. IN COUNTRIES WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE INTEGRITY SYSTEMS AND IN THE CASE OF ETHIOPIA THERE IS 100 MILLION PEOPLE AND SIX LANGUAGES. FACEBOOK ONLY SUPPORTS TWO OF THOSE LANGUAGES. THIS STRATEGY OF FOCUSING ON LANGUAGE SPECIFIC SYSTEMS TO SAVE US IS DUE TO FAIL. SEN. CANTWELL: I'M SENDING A LETTER TO FACEBOOK. THEY BETTER NOT DELETE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT HOW THEY PROCEEDED IN LIGHT OF YOUR INFORMATION. AREN'T WE ALSO NOW TALKING ABOUT
01:24:19
ADVERTISING FRAUD? AREN'T YOU SELLING SOMETHING TO ADVERTISERS THAT IS NOT REALLY WHAT THEY ARE GETTING? WE ARE TRYING TO SAY JOURNALISM BASICALLY HAS TO BE A DIFFERENT STANDARD, A PUBLIC INTEREST STANDARD. THESE GUYS ARE A SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT. THE CONSEQUENCE IS THEY ARE TELLING ADVERTISERS WE SEE IT. PEOPLE ARE COMING BACK TO LOCAL JOURNALISM. WE WANT TO BE WITH A TRUSTED BRAND. I THINK YOU ARE FINDING IS AN
01:24:57
INTERESTING ONE. WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT ARE THE OTHER ISSUES? DO THEY DEFRAUD ADVERTISERS? TELLING THEM THEY WILL BE ADVERTISING IT WHEN IN REALITY IT WAS SOMETHING DIFFERENT BASED ON A MODEL. MS. HAUGEN: WE HAVE MULTIPLE EXAMPLES OF QUESTION AND ANSWERS WHERE THE SALES STAFF, ADVERTISERS SAY, SHOULD WE COME BACK TO FACEBOOK AFTER THE INSURRECTION? FACEBOOK SAID IN THEIR TALKING POINTS THAT THEY GAVE TO ADVERTISERS, WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER.
01:25:35
SEN. CANTWELL: THAT WAS NOT TRUE. THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: IF YOU WANT TO MAKE YOUR LETTER AVAILABLE, I WOULD BE GLAD TO JOIN YOU MYSELF. I THANK YOU FOR SUGGESTING IT. SENATOR LEE. SEN. LEE: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK. IT IS VERY HELPFUL. LAST WEEK WE HAD ANOTHER WITNESS FROM FACEBOOK COMMENT TESTIFY
01:26:10
BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE. SHE FOCUSED ON THE EXTENT TO WHICH FACEBOOK TARGETED ADS TOWARDS CHILDREN. INCLUDING ADS THAT WORK SEXUALLY SUGGESTIVE OR GUILT -- GEARED TOWARDS ADULT THEMED PRODUCTS. WHILE I APPRECIATED HER WILLINGNESS, I DID NOT GET THE CLEAREST ANSWERS IN RESPONSE TO SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS. I'M HOPING YOU COULD SHED SOME LIGHT ON SOME OF THOSE ISSUES RELATED TO FACEBOOK'S ADVERTISING PROCESS. I WANT TO POINT YOU TO A QUOTE
01:26:48
THAT I GOT FROM MS. DAVIS LAST WEEK. HERE'S WHAT SHE SAID. WHEN WE DO ADS TO YOUNG PEOPLE THERE ARE ONLY THREE THINGS IN ADVERTISER COULD TARGET AROUND. AGE, GENDER, LOCATION. WE PROHIBIT CERTAIN ADS TO YOUNG PEOPLE INCLUDING WEIGHT LOSS ADS. WE DON'T ALLOW TOBACCO ADS AT ALL. WE DON'T ALLOW THEM TO CHILDREN. SINCE THAT EXCHANGE HAPPENED LAST WEEK, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS INCLUDING A GROUP
01:27:25
CALLED THE TRANSPARENCY PROJECT THAT HAVE INDICATED THAT THE TESTIMONY WAS INACCURATE. THEY NOTED IT CONDUCTED AN EXPERIMENT JUST LAST MONTH. THE GOAL WAS TO RUN A SERIES OF ADS THAT WOULD BE TARGETED TO CHILDREN AGES 13-17 TO USERS IN THE UNITED STATES. I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT TDP DID NOT WIND UP RUNNING THESE ADS. THEY STOP THEM FROM BEING DISTRIBUTED TO THE USERS.
01:28:04
FACEBOOK APPROVED THEM. FACEBOOK APPROVES THEM FOR AN AUDIENCE UP TO 9.1 MILLION USERS. THIS IS THE FIRST ONE I WANTED TO SHOWCASE. THIS FIRST ONE IS A COLORFUL GRAPHIC ENCOURAGING KIDS TO THROW A SKITTLES PARTY LIKE NO OTHER LIKE THE GRAPHIC INDICATES ALSO INDEPENDENTLY SUGGESTS THIS INVOLVES GETTING TOGETHER RANDOMLY TO ABUSE PRESCRIPTION DRUGS.
01:28:43
THE SECOND GRAPHIC DISCREDIT -- DISPLAYS SOMETHING SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO ENCOURAGE AND PROMOTE ANOREXIA. IT IS ON THERE. THE AD ALSO PROMOTES IT. THE THIRD ONE INVITES THEM TO FIND A PARTNER ONLINE. YOU LOOK LONELY, FIND YOUR PARTNER NOW TO MAKE IT LOVE CONNECTION. THIS WILL BE AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT KETTLE OF FISH IF IT WAS AN ADULT AUDIENCE.
01:29:27
IT IS TARGETED THROUGH -- 213-17-YEAR-OLDS. PARTICULARLY WHEN TARGETED TO CHILDREN, JUST TO BE CLEAR TDP DOES NOT END UP PUSHING THE ADS OUT. THIS SAYS SOMETHING, ONE COULD ARGUE APPROVES FACEBOOK IS ALLOWING AND PERHAPS FACILITATING ADS TO OUR NATION'S CHILDREN. COULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME
01:30:10
HOW THESE ADS WITH A TARGET AUDIENCE, HOW WOULD THEY POSSIBLY BE APPROVED BY FACEBOOK? IS AI INVOLVED IN THAT? MS. HAUGEN: I DO NOT WORK DIRECTLY ON THE SYSTEM. FACEBOOK HAS A DEEP FOCUS ON SCALE. IT IS PARTLY WHY THEY RELY ON AI SO MUCH. IT IS POSSIBLE THAT NONE OF THOSE ADS WERE SEEN BY HUMANS.
01:30:51
FROM REPEATED DOCUMENTS WITHIN MY DISCLOSURES THAT FACEBOOK'S AI SYSTEM ONLY CATCHES A MINORITY OF OFFENDING CONTENT. AT MOST THEY WILL EVER GET 10%-20%. IN THE CASE OF CHILDREN, DRUG PARAPHERNALIA ADS, IT IS LIKELY IF THEY RELY ON COMPUTERS AND NOT HUMANS THEY WILL LIKELY NEVER GET MORE THAN 10-20%. SEN. LEE: I HAVE ONE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION. WHEN FACEBOOK MAKES CLAIMS AND
01:31:29
ONLY TARGETS ADS BASED ON AGE, GENDER, AND LOCATION EVEN THOUGH THESE THINGS SEEM TO COUNTERACT THAT. LET'S SET THAT ASIDE FOR A MINUTE. THEY ARE NOT FACING ADS BASED ON SPECIFIC INTEREST CATEGORIES. DO THEY STILL COLLECT DATA ON TEENAGERS EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT AT THAT MOMENT TARGETING ADS AT TEENS BASED ON THOSE INTEREST CATEGORIES? MS. HAUGEN: IT IS IMPORTANT TO DIFFERENTIATE WHAT TARGETING THEY SPECIFY AND WHAT TARGETING
01:32:05
FACEBOOK MAY LEARN. IT WILL LIKELY EXTRACT OUT FEATURES THEY WOULD LEARN PARTING IS A CONCEPT. I AM VERY SUSPICIOUS THAT PERSONALIZED ADS ARE STILL NOT BEING DELIVERED BECAUSE THE ALGORITHM LEARNS CORRELATIONS. THEY LEARN INTERACTIONS WHERE YOUR PARTY ADD -- FACEBOOK HAS A RANKING MODEL IN THE BACKGROUND
01:32:40
THAT SAYS THIS PERSON WANTS MORE PARTY RELATED CONTENT. SEN. LEE: THANK YOU, THAT IS VERY HELPFUL. WHAT THAT SUGGESTS TO ME IS THEY ARE SAYING THEY ARE NOT TARGETING TEENS WITH THOSE ADS, THE ALGORITHM MIGHT DO SOME OF THAT WORK. MIGHT BE WHY THEY COLLECT THE DATA. MS. HAUGEN: I CANNOT SAY WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS THE INTENTION. IT IS DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND THESE ALGORITHMS TODAY. THESE BIASES UNINTENTIONALLY LEARN. -- SEN. LEE: THANK YOU.
01:33:23
CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: SENATOR MARTIN. SEN. MARKEY: OUR NATION OWES YOU A HUGE DEBT OF GRATITUDE FOR THE COURAGE YOU ARE SHOWING. SO I THANK YOU. WOULD YOU SAY FACEBOOK SEEKS TO ATTACK CHILDREN AND TEENS ON PLATFORM? -- MARKET CHILDREN AND TEENS? MS. HAUGEN: CHILDREN DEFINITELY
01:34:08
-- FACEBOOK MARKETS TO CHILDREN UNDER 18 ON INSTAGRAM. SEN. MARKEY: WHY DO WE CARE ABOUT TWEENS ACCORDING TO A MEMO, THEY ARE VALUABLE BUT UNTAPPED. FACEBOOK ONLY CARES ABOUT CHILDREN TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY ARE OF MONETARY VALUE. FACEBOOK'S GLOBAL HEAD OF SAFETY, DAVIS, TOLD ME FACEBOOK DOES NOT ALLOW TARGETING OF CERTAIN CONTENT TO TEENS. IT STATED WE DON'T ALLOW WEIGHT
01:34:45
LOSS ADS TO BE SHOWN TO PEOPLE UNDER THE AGE OF 18. A RECENT STUDY PROMOTED THIS TO CHILDREN AS YOUNG AS 13 WITH A YOUNG WOMAN'S WAIST. BASED ON YOUR TIME AT FACEBOOK, DO YOU FEEL THEY ARE TELLING THE TRUTH? MS. HAUGEN: THEY ARE FOR GUEST ON -- THEY ARE FOCUSED ON SCALE OVER SAFETY. USING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TO IDENTIFY HARMFUL ADS WITHOUT ALLOWING THE OVERSIGHT TO SEE
01:35:21
WHAT IS THE ACTUAL EFFECTIVENESS OF THESE SAFETY SYSTEMS. SEN. MARKEY: DID YOU RAISE THIS ISSUE WITH YOUR SUPERVISOR? MS. HAUGEN: I DID NOT WORK ON ANYTHING INVOLVING TEEN MENTAL HEALTH. SEN. MARKEY: MS. DAVIS TESTIFIED LAST WEEK THAT WE DON'T ALLOW TOBACCO ADS AT ALL. WE DON'T ALLOW THEM, WE DON'T ALLOW ALCOHOL ADS TO MINORS. RESEARCHERS ALSO FOUND FACEBOOK ALLOWS TARGETING FOR TEENS, DO
01:36:00
YOU FEEL FACEBOOK'S TRUCK -- TELLING THE TRUTH? MS. HAUGEN: I DO NOT HAVE CONTEXT ON THAT ISSUE. IF THEY ARE USING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, UNQUESTIONABLY IT IS MAKING ITS WAY THROUGH. SEN. MARKEY: FROM MY PERSPECTIVE LISTENING TO YOU AND YOUR COURAGEOUS REVELATIONS, TIME AND TIME AGAIN FACEBOOK SAYS ONE THING AND DOES ANOTHER. FACEBOOK FAILS TO ABIDE BY THE COMMITMENTS THAT THEY HAVE MADE. TIME AND TIME AGAIN FACEBOOK LIES ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING. YESTERDAY FACEBOOK HAD A PLATFORM OUTAGE.
01:36:40
FOR YEARS AND IT IS AT A PRINCIPAL OUTAGE. FACEBOOK IS LIKE BIG TOBACCO. ENTICING YOUNG KIDS WITH THEIR FIRST CIGARETTES, THAT FIRST SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNT DESIGNED TO HOOKS KIDS AS USERS FOR LIFE. FACEBOOK USES HARMFUL FEATURES THAT QUANTIFY POPULARITY, PUSH MANIPULATIVE MARKETING. AMPLIFY HARMFUL CONTENT TO TEENS.
01:37:13
FACEBOOK WOULD NOT EVEN COMMIT--
01:38:45
MS. HAUGEN: USE AMPLIFICATION SYSTEMS. >> YOU AGREE CONGRESS HAS TO ENACT THE SPECIAL PROTECTIONS. --
01:39:43
GIVE YOUNG TEENS UNDER THE AGE OF 16 AND THEIR PARENTS CONTROL OF THEIR INFORMATION. THEY WILL BAN TARGETED ADS TO CHILDREN. MS. HAUGEN: I SUPPORT ALL OF THOSE ACTIONS. SEN. MARKEY: FINALLY, WE HAVE INTRODUCED THE ALGORITHMIC JUSTICE AND TRANSPARENCY ACT THAT WOULD OPEN THE HOOD ON FACEBOOK AND BIG TECH'S ALGORITHMS SO WE KNOW HOW FACEBOOK IS USING OUR DATA TO
01:40:18
DECIDE WHAT CONTENT WE SEE. TWO, A DISCRIMINATORY ALGORITHM LIKE SHOWING VULNERABLE HOUSING -- HOUSING ADS TO WHITE PEOPLE BUT NOT BLACK PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY. SHOULD CONGRESS PASSED THAT BILL? MS. HAUGEN: ALGORITHMIC BIAS ISSUES ARE A MAJOR ISSUE FOR OUR DEMOCRACY. I BECAME VERY AWARE OF THE CHALLENGES OF -- LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE IT IS DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND HOW THESE ALGORITHMS ACTUALLY ACT AND PERFORM.
01:40:53
FACEBOOK IS AWARE OF COMPLAINTS TODAY. IT DOES NOT GIVE AFRICAN-AMERICANS THE SAME DISTRIBUTION AS WHITE PEOPLE. UNTIL WE HAVE TRANSPARENCY AND THE ABILITY TO CONFIRM OURSELVES IF FACEBOOK'S MARKETING MESSAGES ARE TRUE, WE WILL NOT HAVE A SYSTEM THAT IS COMPATIBLE. SEN. MARKEY: I THINK IT SENATOR LEE -- THANK SENATOR LEE. I AGREE WITH YOU WRITING FACEBOOK ASKING THEM TO EXPLAIN THE DISCREPANCY. I THINK FACEBOOK IS LYING ABOUT
01:41:28
TARGETING 13-15-YEAR-OLDS. MY MESSAGE FOR MARK ZUCKERBERG, YOUR TIME OF INVADING OUR PRIVACY, PROMOTING TOXIC CONTENT, AND PREYING ON CHILDREN AND TEENS IS OVER. CONGRESS WILL BE TAKING ACTION. YOU COULD WORK WITH US OR NOT WORK WITH US. WE WILL NOT ALLOW YOUR COMPANY TO HARM OUR CHILDREN AND OUR FAMILIES AND OUR DEMOCRACIES. THANK YOU, WE WILL ACT. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: THANK YOU. WE WILL TURN TO SENATOR
01:42:05
BLACKBURN AND THEN WE WILL TAKE A BREAK. I KNOW THERE IS SOME INTEREST IN ANOTHER ROUND OF QUESTIONS. MAYBE WE WILL TURN TO SENATOR WUHAN -- SENATOR LUJAN. >> MR. CHAIRMAN, I HAVE TO GO TO SIT IN THE CHAIR STARTING AT NOON. >> I HAVE ONE QUESTION. THIS RELATES TO WHAT MR. MARKEY
01:42:46
WAS ASKING. DOES FACEBOOK EVER EMPLOY CHILD PSYCHOLOGISTS OR MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS TO DEAL WITH THESE CHILDREN ONLINE ISSUES THAT WE ARE DISCUSSING? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK HAS MANY RESEARCHERS WITH PHD'S. I ASSUME SOME OF THEM ARE -- I KNOW SOME OF THEM HAVE PSYCHOLOGY DEGREES. I AM NOT SURE IF THEY ARE CHILD SPECIALIST. FACEBOOK WORKS WITH EXTERNAL AGENCIES TO PROTECT CHILDREN'S RIGHTS ONLINE. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: SENATOR LUJAN,
01:43:21
AFTER THOSE QUESTIONS WE WILL TAKE A BREAK, COME BACK AT NOON. SEN. LEE: -- SEN. LUJAN: DURING THE HEARING THE COMPANY CONTESTED THEIR OWN INTERNAL RESEARCH THAT DOES NOT EXIST. YES OR NO, DOES FACEBOOK HAVE INTERNAL RESEARCH INDICATING THAT INSTAGRAM HARMS TEENS? PARTICULARLY HARMING PERCEPTION
01:43:57
OF THE BODY IMAGE THAT DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTS YOUNG WOMEN? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK HAS EXTENSIVE RESEARCH. SEN. LUJAN: THANK YOU FOR CONFIRMING THESE REPORTS. FACEBOOK MADE THE DATA SET MINUS ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION AVAILABLE TO THIS COMMITTEE. DO YOU BELIEVE IT IS IMPORTANT FOR TRANSPARENCY AND SAFETY THAT FACEBOOK RELEASED THE INTERNAL RESEARCH? THE CORE DATA SET TO ALLOW INDEPENDENT ANALYSIS? MS. HAUGEN: I BELIEVE IT IS
01:44:32
IMPORTANT FOR DEMOCRACY THAT THEY MUST BE DISCLOSED TO THE PUBLIC ON A REGULAR BASIS. WE HAVE TO HAVE PRIVACY AND SENSITIVE DATA SETS TO ALLOW INDEPENDENT RESEARCHERS TO CONFIRM WHETHER OR NOT FACEBOOK'S MARKETING MESSAGES ARE TRUE. SEN. LUJAN: FACEBOOK MAY GET INTERNAL PRIMARY RESEARCH NOT JUST SECONDARY SLIGHT DATA, THE UNDERLYING DATA BY DEFAULT. COULD THIS BE DONE IN A WAY THAT RESPECTS USER PRIVACY? MS. HAUGEN: I BELIEVE IN COLLABORATION WITH ACADEMICS AND OTHER RESEARCHERS WE COULD
01:45:07
DEVELOP WAYS OF EXPOSING RADICALLY MORE DATA THAN IS AVAILABLE TODAY. IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW FACEBOOK SHAPES THE INFORMATION WE GET TO SEE. SEN. LUJAN: IS FACEBOOK CAPABLE OF MAKING THE RIGHT DECISION ON ITS OWN OR IS REGULATION NEEDED TO CREATE REAL TIME? MS. HAUGEN: UNTIL INCENTIVES CHANGE, WE CANNOT EXPECT FACEBOOK TO CHANGE WE NEED ACTION FROM CONGRESS. SEN. LUJAN: I ASKED ABOUT SHADOW PROFILES AND SHE SAID NO DATA IS
01:45:45
EVER COLLECTED ON CHILDREN UNDER 13 BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE ACCOUNTS. THIS IGNORES THE ISSUE. INSTEAD OF SEEING THIS AS A PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED, FACEBOOK VIEWS THIS AS A BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY. DOES FACEBOOK CONDUCT THIS ON CHILDREN UNDER 13 EXAMINING THE BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES TO FACEBOOK PROFIT? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK HAS TO PUBLISH THIS, THEY ARE ON THE PLATFORM IN FAR GREATER NUMBERS THAN EVERYONE IS AWARE. I AM AWARE FACEBOOK IS DOING RESEARCH ON CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF 13. THOSE STUDIES ARE INCLUDED.
01:46:23
SEN. LUJAN: YOU HAVE SHARED CONCERNS ABOUT HOW SENIOR MANAGEMENT AT FACEBOOK HAS DONE THIS OVER THE USER HARM AND SAFETY. I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS ON FACEBOOK'S DECISION-MAKING. LAST WEEK I ASKED, HAS FACEBOOK FOUND A CHANGE TO ITS PLATFORM THAT COULD POTENTIALLY INFLICT HARM ON USERS? FACEBOOK WILL MOVE FORWARD BECAUSE THE CHANGE WILL GROW WHERE USERS WILL INCREASE REVENUE. IT HAS NOT BEEN MY EXPERIENCE AT ALL AT FACEBOOK, THAT IS JUST NOT HOW WE WOULD APPROACH IT.
01:46:59
HAS FACEBOOK EVER FOUND A FEATURE ON ITS PLATFORM THAT HARMED ITS USERS BUT THE FUTURE MOVE FORWARD BECAUSE IT WOULD GROW USERS OR INCREASE REVENUE? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK LIKES TO PAINT THAT THESE ISSUES ARE COMPLICATED. THERE ARE A LOT OF SIMPLE ISSUES. REQUIRING SOMEONE TO CLICK THROUGH A LINK FOR UREA SHARE. IT DOES -- IN SOME COUNTRIES RE-SHARES BREAK UP 35% OF CONTENT ALL PEOPLE SEE.
01:47:35
SEN. LUJAN: DID THESE DECISIONS EVER COME FROM MARK ZUCKERBERG DIRECTLY OR FROM OTHER MANAGEMENT AT FACEBOOK? MS. HAUGEN: WE HAVE A FEW CHOICE DOCUMENTS. METRICS DEFINED BY FACEBOOK WITH MEANINGFUL SOCIAL INTERACTIONS. SEN. LUJAN: THIS IS THE REFERENCE YOU SHARED EARLIER TO MS. CANTWELL IN 2020. MS. HAUGEN: THE SOFT INTERVENTION. SEN. LUJAN: FACEBOOK WAS ABLE TO COUNT ON THE SILENCE OF ITS WORKFORCE FOR A LONG TIME.
01:48:20
FACEBOOK MODERATORS HAVE CALLED OUT A CULTURE OF FEAR AND SECRECY THAT PREVENTED THEM FROM SPEAKING OUT. IS THERE A CULTURE AROUND FACEBOOK WITH WHISTLEBLOWING AND ACCOUNTABILITY? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK HAS A CULTURE THAT EMPHASIZES THAT INSULARITY IS THE PATH FORWARD. IT WOULD JUST BE MISUNDERSTOOD. I BELIEVE THAT RELATIONSHIP HAS TO CHANGE. THE ONLY WAY WE WILL SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS IS BY SOLVING THEM TOGETHER. WE WILL HAVE MORE DEMOCRATIC SOLUTIONS IF WE DO IT COLLABORATIVELY.
01:48:55
SEN. LUJAN: IS THERE A SENIOR-LEVEL EXECUTIVE LIKE INSPECTOR GENERAL WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR ENSURING COMPLAINTS FROM EMPLOYEES ARE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AND THAT EMPLOYEES LEGAL, ETHICAL, AND MORAL CONCERNS RECEIVED CONSIDERATION WITH A REAL POSSIBILITY OF INSTIGATING CHANGE TO COMPANY POLICIES? MS. HAUGEN: I'M NOT AWARE OF THAT ROLE. THE COMPANY IS LARGE. SEN. LUJAN: IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THERE IS A GENTLEMAN BY THE NAME OF ROY AUSTEN WHO IS THE VICE PRESIDENT OF CIVIL RIGHTS WHO DESCRIBED HIMSELF AS AN INSPECTOR GENERAL.
01:49:33
HE DOES NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE THESE INTERNAL CONFLICTS PUBLIC. THE OVERSIGHT BOARD WAS CREATED BY FACEBOOK. IT WAS NOT CREATED TO RAISE CONCERNS. ANOTHER AREA I BELIEVE WE HAVE TO ACT ON. I THANK YOU FOR COMING FORWARD TODAY. MS. HAUGEN: MY PLEASURE, HAPPY TO SERVE. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: THE COMMITTEE IS IN RECESS. [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS]
01:51:02
>> THE SENATE COMMERCE SUBCOMMITTEE ON CONSUMER PROTECTION, PRODUCT SAFETY AND DATA SECURITY HAS GONE INTO RECESS TO ALLOW MEMBERS TO VOTE ON THE SENATE FLOOR. THEY HAVE BEEN HEARING TESTIMONY TODAY FROM FRANCES HAUGEN, A WHISTLEBLOWER FROM HER EXPERIENCES AT THE COMPANY ON HOW TO PROTECT CHILDREN ONLINE. WE WILL RETURN TO LIVE COVERAGE WHEN THEY RESUME. WHILE WE WAIT FOR THE COMMITTEE TO RESUME, WE WILL SHOW YOU A PORTION OF THE HEARING FROM EARLIER TODAY. CHRM. BLUMENTHAL: THE MEETING
01:52:22
AND HEARING OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON CONSUMER PROTECTION WILL COME TO ORDER. I'M VERY PLEASED TO WELCOME MY COLLEAGUES. I WANT TO THANK RANKING MEMBER SENATOR BLACKBURN FOR HER COOPERATION AND COLLABORATION. WE HAVE BEEN WORKING VERY CLOSELY. THE RANKING MEMBER WHO WAS HERE, AS WELL AS OUR CHAIRWOMAN, MARIA CANTWELL I'M SURE WE'LL BE HERE SHORTLY. I WOULD LIKE TO THANK OUR
01:52:58
WITNESS, FRANCES HAUGEN FOR BEING HERE AND THE COUNCIL WHO ARE REPRESENTING HER TODAY. I WANT TO GIVE YOU MY HEARTFELT GRATITUDE FOR YOUR COURAGE AND STRENGTH IN COMING FORWARD AS YOU HAVE DONE, STANDING UP TO ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL CORPORATE GIANTS IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD. I DON'T THINK THAT IS ANY EXAGGERATION. YOU HAVE MADE -- A COMPELLING, CREDIBLE VOICE THAT WE HAVE HEARD ALREADY.
01:53:32
YOU ARE NOT HERE ALONE. YOU ARE ARMED WITH DOCUMENTS, EVIDENCE. YOU SPEAK VOLUMES AS THEY DO ABOUT HOW FACEBOOK HAS PUT PROFITS AHEAD OF PEOPLE. AMONG OTHER REVELATIONS THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE PROVIDED TO THE CONGRESS IS POWERFUL PROOF THAT FACEBOOK KNEW ITS PRODUCTS WERE HARMING TEENAGERS. FACEBOOK EXPLOITED TEENAGERS USING POWERFUL ALGORITHMS AND AMPLIFIED THEIR INSECURITIES.
01:54:09
WHAT IT FOUND WAS AN ADDED NARRATIVE. THERE IS NO QUESTION AS TO WHETHER THERE IS SUCH A THING AS A SAFE ALGORITHM. FACEBOOK SAW TEENS CREATING SECRET ACCOUNTS THAT ARE OFTEN HIDDEN FROM THEIR PARENTS AS UNIQUE VALUE PROPOSITION. IN THEIR WORDS, A UNIQUE VALUE PROPOSITION. SHAREHOLDERS AT THE EXPENSE OF SAFETY.
01:54:47
IT DOUBLED DOWN ON TARGETING CHILDREN. PUSHING PRODUCT ON TWEETING -- PRETEENS THAT IT KNOWS ARE HARMFUL TO OUR KIDS MENTAL HEALTH AND WELL-BEING. INSTEAD OF TELLING PARENTS FACEBOOK CONCEAL THE FACTS, IT STONEWALLED AND BLOCKED THE INFORMATION. INCLUDING TO THIS COMMITTEE WHEN SENATOR BLACKBURN AND I SPECIFICALLY ASKED THE COMPANY. STILL, EVEN NOW AS OF LAST THURSDAY WHEN A FACEBOOK WITNESS
01:55:20
CAME FORWARD, NICK REFUSED TO DISCLOSE WHEN IT MIGHT DECIDE WHETHER TO DISCLOSE ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTS. THEY CONTINUED THEIR TACTICS, EVEN AFTER THEY KNEW THE DESTRUCTION IT CAUSED. IT ISN'T JUST THAT THEY MADE MONEY. THEY CONTINUED TO PROFIT FROM THEM. THE PROPHET WAS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PAIN THEY CAUSED. LAST THURSDAY THE MESSAGE FROM FACEBOOK'S GLOBAL HEAD OF SAFETY WAS SIMPLE.
01:56:00
THE RESEARCH IS NOT A BOND FILL. THIS RESEARCH IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF AVON FILL. FACEBOOK AND BIG TECH ARE FACING A BIG TOBACCO MOMENT. A MOMENT OF RECKONING. I SUED BIG TOBACCO AS CONNECTICUT'S ATTORNEY GENERAL. I REMEMBER VERY WELL THE MOMENT IN THE COURSE OF OUR LITIGATION WHEN WE LEARNED OF THOSE FILES
01:56:40
THAT SHOWED NOT ONLY THAT BIG TOBACCO KNEW ITS PRODUCT CAUSE CANCER BUT THAT THEY HAD DONE THE RESEARCH, THEY CONCEALED THE FILES. NOW WE KNEW AND THE WORLD KNEW. BIG TECH NOW FACES THAT BIG TOBACCO JAW-DROPPING MOMENT OF TRUTH. IT IS DOCUMENTED PROOF THAT FACEBOOK KNOWS ITS PRODUCT COULD BE ADDICTIVE AND TOXIC TO CHILDREN. IT IS NOT JUST THAT THEY MADE MONEY. THEY VALUED THEIR PROFIT MORE
01:57:20
THAN THE PAIN THAT THEY CAUSED. THE DAMAGE TO SELF-INTEREST AND SELF-WORTH INFLICTED BY FACEBOOK TODAY WILL HAUNT A GENERATION. FEELINGS OF INADEQUACY AND INSECURITY, REJECTION AND SELF-HATRED. LOOKING PAST THIS GENERATION FOR YEARS TO COME. OUR CHILDREN ARE THE ONES WHO ARE VICTIMS. TEENS TODAY LOOKING AT THEMSELVES IN THE MIRROR. THEY FEEL DOUBT AND INSECURITY
01:58:03
MARK ZUCKERBERG SHOULD BE LOOKING AT HIMSELF IN THE MIRROR TODAY. SHOWING LEADERSHIP, MR. ZUCKERBERG IS GOING SAILING. NO APOLOGY, NO ADMISSION, NOTHING TO SEE HERE. MARK ZUCKERBERG, YOU NEED TO COME BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE AND EXPLAIN TO FRANCES HAUGEN, TO US, TO THE WORLD AND TO THE PARENTS OF AMERICA WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND WHY YOU DID IT.
01:58:44
MORE EYEBALLS, MORE DOLLARS, EVERYTHING FACEBOOK DOES. IN ORDER TO HOOK US, INSTAGRAM USES OUR PRIVATE INFORMATION TO PRECISELY TARGET CONTENT AND RECOMMENDATIONS. WHAT WILL PROVOKE A REACTION WILL KEEP US FLOWING. THESE ARE MOST DESTRUCTIVE AND DANGEROUS BEHAVIORS. AS WE SHOWED THURSDAY, WE CREATED A FAKE ACCOUNT.
01:59:26
INTERESTED IN EXTREME DIETING AND EATING DISORDERS, INSTAGRAM LATCHED ONTO THAT TEENAGERS AND PUSH MORE CONTENT RECOMMENDATION. GLORIFYING EATING DISORDERS. THAT IS HOW INSTAGRAM'S ALGORITHMS FACEBOOK'S OWN RESEARCHERS CALLED IT INSTAGRAM'S PERFECT STORM. EXACERBATING DOWNWARD FILERS.
02:00:02
FACEBOOK AS YOU PUT IT MAXIMIZES PROFIT. FACEBOOK'S FAILURE TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND ACT MAKES IT MORALLY BANKRUPT. AGAIN AND AGAIN FACEBOOK REJECTED REFORMS BY ITS OWN RESEARCHERS. LAST WEEK MS. DAVIS SAID WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT, NO SPECIFIC PLANS. NO COMMITMENTS. THESE DOCUMENTS YOU HAVE REVEALED PROVIDED THIS COMPANY WITH A BLUEPRINT, SPECIFIC
02:00:41
RECOMMENDATIONS THAT COULD HAVE MADE FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM SAFER. THEY REPEATEDLY IGNORED THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM HIS OWN RESEARCHERS THAT WOULD'VE MADE FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM SAFER. FACEBOOK RESEARCHERS HAVE SUGGESTED CHANGING RECOMMENDATIONS TO STOP PROMOTING ACCOUNTS KNOWN TO ENCOURAGE DANGEROUS BODY COMPARISON. INSTEAD OF MAKING MEANINGFUL CHANGES, FACEBOOK SIMPLY PAYS LIP SERVICE AND IF THEY WON'T
02:01:21
ACT, IF BIG TECH WON'T ACT, CONGRESS HAS TO INTERVENE. PRIVACY PROTECTION IS LONG OVERDUE. SENATOR MARKEY AND I HAVE PROPOSED THE ACT THAT FACEBOOK USES TO EXPLOIT CHILDREN. I'M ALSO A FIRM SUPPORTER OF REFORMING SECTION 230. WE SHOULD CONSIDER NARROWING THIS SWEEPING IMMUNITY WITH PLATFORMS ALGORITHMS AMPLIFIED ILLEGAL CONDUCT. PERHAPS YOU WILL EXPAND ON IT.
02:02:00
WE HAVE ALSO HEARD COMPELLING RECOMMENDATIONS OF DISCLOSING RESEARCH AND INDEPENDENT REVIEWS OF THESE PLATFORM ALGORITHMS. I PLAN TO PURSUE THESE IDEAS. THE SECURITY AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION SHOULD INVESTIGATE YOUR INTENTIONS AND CLAIMS AND SO SHOULD THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION. FACEBOOK APPEARS TO HAVE MISLED THE PUBLIC AND INVESTORS. THEY SHOULD FACE REAL PENALTIES AS A RESULT OF THAT MISREPRESENTATION.
02:02:41
I WANT TO THANK ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE HERE TODAY BECAUSE WHAT WE HAVE IS A BIPARTISAN CONGRESSIONAL ROADMAP FOR REFORM THAT WILL SAFEGUARD AND PROTECT CHILDREN FROM BIG TECH. THAT WILL BE A FOCUS OF OUR SUBCOMMITTEE MOVING FORWARD. IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE BIPARTISAN. I WILL END ON THIS NOTE. IN THE PAST, WE HAD HEARTBREAKING AND SPINE CHILLING STORIES ABOUT EATING DISORDERS,
02:03:21
BULLYING ONLINE, SELF INJURY OF THE MOST DISTURBING KIND. SOMETIMES EVEN TAKING THEIR LIVES BECAUSE OF SOCIAL MEDIA. PARENTS ARE HOLDING FACEBOOK ACCOUNTABLE BECAUSE OF YOUR BRAVERY AND WE NEED TO HOLD ACCOUNTABLE FACEBOOK AND ALL BIG TECH AS WELL. AGAIN, MY THANKS TO YOU. I'M GOING TO ENTER INTO THE RECORD A LETTER FROM 52 STATES ATTORNEY GENERALS AND THE YOUTH ADVISORY BOARD OF SANDY HOOK PROMISE.
02:04:00
I WILL NOW TURN TO THE RANKING MEMBER, SENATOR BLACKBURN. SEN. BLACKBURN: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN AND THANK YOU FOR ENTERING INTO THE RECORD THE LETTER FROM THE STATES ATTORNEYS GENERAL. IT'S NICE TO SEE PEOPLE IN THIS HEARING ROOM AND TO BE HERE FOR THE HEARING TODAY, MS. HAUGEN, WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR APPEARANCE AND GIVING THE OPPORTUNITY NOT ONLY FOR CONGRESS, BUT FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO HEAR FROM YOU IN THIS SETTING.
02:04:35
MR. CHAIRMAN, I THINK ALSO, THANKS TO YOU AND YOUR STAFF THAT HAVE WORKED WITH OUR TEAM TO MAKE CERTAIN WE HAVE THIS HEARING AND THIS OPPORTUNITY TODAY SO THAT WE CAN GET MORE INSIGHT INTO WHAT FACEBOOK IS ACTUALLY DOING AS THEY INVADE THE PRIVACY NOT ONLY OF ADULTS BUT OF CHILDREN AND LOOK AT THE WAYS THEY ARE IN VIOLATION OF THE CHILDREN'S ONLINE PRIVACY ACT, WHICH IS FEDERAL LAW.
02:05:10
LOOKING AT HOW THEY ARE EVADING THAT LAW AND WORKING AROUND IT, AND AS THE CHAIRMAN SAID, PRIVACY, ONLINE PRIVACY, PASSING A FEDERAL PRIVACY STANDARD HAS BEEN LONG IN THE WORKS. I FILED MY FIRST PRIVACY BILL WHEN I WAS IN THE HOUSE BACK IN 2012. AND I THINK IT WILL BE THIS CONGRESS AND THIS SUBCOMMITTEE THAT IS GOING TO LEAD THE WAY TO ONLINE PRIVACY, DATA SECURITY, SECTION 230 REFORMS, AND SENATOR
02:05:46
KLOBUCHAR ALWAYS WANTS TO TALK ABOUT ANTITRUST, AND I HAVE TO GIVE A NOD TO SENATOR MARKEY, WHEN WE WERE IN THE HOUSE, WE WERE PROBABLY TWO OF THE ONLY ONES TALKING ABOUT THE NEED TO HAVE A FEDERAL PRIVACY STANDARD. AS THE CHAIRMAN MENTIONED, LAST WEEK, WE HEARD FROM MS. DAVIS WHO HAS GLOBAL SAFETY FOR FACEBOOK. IT WAS SURPRISING TO US THAT WHAT SHE TRIED TO DO WAS MINIMIZE THE INFORMATION THAT
02:06:22
WAS IN THESE DOCUMENTS, TO MINIMIZE THE RESEARCH, AND TO MINIMIZE THE KNOWLEDGE THAT FACEBOOK HAD. AT ONE POINT, I EVEN REMINDED HER THE RESEARCH WAS NOT THIRD-PARTY RESEARCH. THE RESEARCH WAS THERE'S, FACEBOOK'S INTERNAL RESEARCH. SO, THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING. THEY KNEW WHERE THE VIOLATIONS WERE. AND THEY KNOW THEY ARE GUILTY. THEY KNOW THIS. THEIR RESEARCH TELLS THEM THIS.
02:07:01
LAST WEEK, IN ADVANCE OF OUR HEARING, FACEBOOK RELEASED TWO STUDIES AND SAID THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" WAS ALL WRONG. THAT THEY HAD JUST GOTTEN IT WRONG. AND THE WALL STREET JOURNAL DID NOT KNOW HOW TO READ THESE DOCUMENTS AND HOW TO WORK THROUGH THIS RESEARCH. HAVING SEEN THE DATA YOU PRESENTED AND OTHER STUDIES FACEBOOK DID NOT PUBLICLY SHARE, I FEEL PRETTY CONFIDENT THAT IT
02:07:35
IS FACEBOOK WHO HAS DONE THE MISREPRESENTING TO THIS COMMITTEE. HERE ARE SOME OF THE NUMBERS FACEBOOK CHOSE NOT TO SHARE. MR. CHAIRMAN, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT WE LOOK AT THESE AS WE TALK ABOUT THE SETTING FOR THIS HEARING, WHAT WE LEARNED LAST WEEK, WHAT YOU AND I HAVE BEEN LEARNING OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS ABOUT BIG TECH AND FACEBOOK AND HERE YOU GO -- 66% OF TEEN GIRLS ON INSTAGRAM AT 40% OF TEEN BOYS EXPERIENCE NEGATIVE SOCIAL COMPARISON.
02:08:13
THIS IS FACEBOOK'S RESEARCH. 52% OF TEEN GIRLS WHO EXPERIENCE NEGATIVE SOCIAL COMPARISON ON INSTAGRAM SAID IT WAS CAUSED BY IMAGES RELATED TO BEAUTY. SOCIAL COMPARISON IS WORSE ON INSTAGRAM BECAUSE IT IS PERCEIVED AS REAL LIFE BUT BASED ON CELEBRITY STANDARDS. IT MIMICS THE GRIEF CYCLE AND INCLUDES DOWNWARD EMOTIONAL SPIRAL ENCOMPASSING A RANGE OF EMOTIONS FROM JEALOUSY TO
02:08:50
SELF-PROCLAIMED BODY DYSMORPHIA. FACEBOOK CALLS IT CONVENIENTLY PROBLEMATIC USE. IT IS MOST SEVERE IN TEENS, PEAKING AT AGE 14. HERE'S WHAT ELSE WE KNOW -- FACEBOOK IS NOT INTERESTED IN MAKING SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO IMPROVE KIDS SAFETY ON THEIR PLATFORM. AT LEAST NOT WHAT IT WOULD RESULT IN LOSING EYEBALLS ON POSTS OR DECREASING THEIR AD REVENUES. IN FACT, FACEBOOK IS RUNNING
02:09:25
SCARED. THEY KNOW THAT IN THEIR OWN WORDS, YOUNG ADULTS ARE LESS ACTIVE AND LESS ENGAGED ON FACEBOOK AND THEY ARE RUNNING OUT OF TEENS TO ADD TO INSTAGRAM. SO TEENS ARE LOOKING AT OTHER PLATFORMS LIKE TIKTOK AND FACEBOOK IS ONLY MAKING THOSE CHANGES THAT ADD TO ITS USERS NUMBERS AND ULTIMATELY ITS PROFIT. FOLLOW THE MONEY. SO WHAT ARE THESE CHANGES? ALLOWING USERS TO CREATE MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS THAT FACEBOOK
02:09:58
DOES NOT DELETE AND ENCOURAGING TEENS TO MAKE SECOND ACCOUNTS THEY CAN HIDE FROM THEIR PARENTS. THEY ARE ALSO STUDYING YOUNGER AND YOUNGER CHILDREN, AS YOUNG AS EIGHT SO THEY CAN MARKET TO THEM. AND WHILE MS. DAVIS SAYS KIDS BELOW 13 ARE NOT ALLOWED ON FACEBOOK OR INSTAGRAM, WE KNOW THAT THEY ARE BECAUSE SHE TOLD US THEY RECENTLY HAD DELETED 600,000 ACCOUNTS FROM CHILDREN UNDER AGE 13. SO HOW DO YOU GET THAT MANY
02:10:34
UNDER AGE ACCOUNTS IF YOU AREN'T TURNING A BLIND EYE TO THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE? IN ORDER TO TRY TO CLEAN IT UP, YOU HAVE TO DELETE IT AND SAY BY THE WAY, WE JUST IN THE LAST MONTH DELETED 600,000 UNDERAGE ACCOUNTS. SPEAKING OF TURNING A BLIND EYE, FACEBOOK TURNS A BLIND EYE TO USER PRIVACY. NEWS BROKE YESTERDAY THAT THE PRIVATE DATA OF OVER 1.5 BILLION
02:11:07
FACEBOOK USERS IS BEING SOLD ON A HACKING FORUM. THAT IS ITS BIGGEST DATA BREACH TODAY. EXAMPLES LIKE THIS UNDERSCORE MY STRONG CONCERNS ABOUT FACEBOOK COLLECTING THE DATA OF KIDS AND TEENS AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH THAT. FACEBOOK ALSO TURNS A BLIND EYE TOWARD BLATANT HUMAN EXPLOITATION TAKING PLACE ON ITS PLATFORM. TRAFFICKING, FORCED LABOR, CARTELS, THE WORST POSSIBLE THINGS ONE CAN IMAGINE. BIG TECH COMPANIES HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH ABUSING CONSUMERS FOR TOO LONG.
02:11:47
IT IS CLEAR FACEBOOK PRIORITIZES PROFIT OVER THE WELL-BEING OF CHILDREN AND ALL USERS. SO, AS A MOTHER AND GRANDMOTHER, THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT IS OF PARTICULAR CONCERN TO ME. SO, WE THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY MS. HAUGEN, AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO GETTING TO THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT FACEBOOK IS DOING WITH USERS DATA AND HOW THEY ARE USING THEIR PRIVACY AND HOW THEY SHOW A LACK OF RESPECT FOR THE
02:12:23
INDIVIDUALS ON THEIR NETWORK. WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE TESTIMONY. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. SEN. -- CHAIR BLUMENTHAL: THANK YOU, SENATOR BLACKBURN. I DON'T KNOW IF THE RANKING MEMBER WOULD LIKE -- >> I WOULD JUST LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT OR TWO AND WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AS RANKING MEMBER OF THE FULL COMMITTEE. THIS IS A SUBCOMMITTEE HEARING AND YOU SEE SOME VACANT SEATS
02:12:56
AND THIS IS A GOOD ATTENDANCE FOR A SUBCOMMITTEE. THERE ARE ALSO LOTS OF THINGS GOING ON SO THERE WILL BE PEOPLE COMING AND GOING, BUT I PREDICT THIS WILL HAVE ALMOST 100% ATTENDANCE BY MEMBERS OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE BECAUSE OF THE IMPORTANCE OF THE SUBJECT MATTER. THANK YOU FOR COMING FORWARD TO SHARE CONCERNS ABOUT FACEBOOK'S BUSINESS PRACTICES, PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO CHILDREN AND TEENS. THAT IS THE MAIN TOPIC OF THE TITLE OF OUR HEARING -- PROTECTING KIDS -- CHAIR BLUMENTHAL: THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.
02:13:35
WE WILL RECONVENE AND GO TO SENATOR HICKENLOOPER. SEN. HICKENLOOPER: THANK YOU MR. CHAIR AND THANK YOU MS. HAUGEN FOR BEING ABLE TO PROVIDE SUCH CLARITY ON SOME OF THESE ISSUES. OBVIOUSLY, FACEBOOK CAN MANIPULATE ITS ALGORITHMS TO ATTRACT USERS. MY QUESTION WOULD BE DO YOU FEEL IN YOUR HUMBLE OPINION, SIMPLY MAXIMIZING PROFITS, NO MATTER THE SOCIETAL IMPACT THAT IS JUSTIFIED?
02:14:10
THE QUESTION THEN WOULD BE -- THE SHORT QUESTION, WHICH I THINK I KNOW THE ANSWER, WHAT IMPACT TO FACEBOOK'S BOTTOM LINE WOULD IT HAVE IF THE ALGORITHM WAS CHANGED TO PROMOTE SAFETY? CHANGED TO SAVE THE LIVES OF YOUNG WOMEN RATHER THAN PUT THEM AT RISK? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK TODAY MAKES APPROXIMATELY $40 BILLION A YEAR IN PROFIT.
02:14:49
A LOT OF THE CHANGES I'M TALKING ABOUT ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE FACEBOOK AND UNPROFITABLE COMPANY. IT JUST WON'T BE A LUDICROUSLY PROFITABLE COMPANY LIKE IT IS TODAY. ENGAGEMENT-BASED RANKING WHICH CAUSES THE PROBLEMS THAT LEADS YOUNG WOMEN FROM INNOCUOUS TARGETS -- TOPICS LIKE HEALTHY RECIPES TO ANOREXIA, IF IT WERE IMPROVED, PEOPLE WOULD CONSUME LESS CONTENT ON FACEBOOK, BUT FACEBOOK WOULD STILL BE PROFITABLE. I ENCOURAGE OVERSIGHT AND PUBLIC SCRUTINY INTO HOW THESE ALGORITHMS WORK AND THE
02:15:24
CONSEQUENCES. SEN. HICKENLOOPER: I APPRECIATE THAT. I'M A FORMER SMALL BUSINESS OWNER. I STARTED A BREWPUB BACK IN 1988. REALLY, WE WORKED VERY HARD TO LOOK -- WE WEREN'T DOING INVESTIGATIONS, BUT WE WERE CONCERNED IF SOMEONE HAD TOO MUCH TO DRINK, A FREQUENT CUSTOMER PUTTING HIMSELF AT RISK AND OTHERS. OBVIOUSLY I THINK THE FACEBOOK BUSINESS MODEL POSES RISKS TO
02:16:00
YOUTH AND TO TEENS. YOU COMPARED IT TO CIGARETTE COMPANIES, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS RIGHTFULLY SO. THE QUESTION IS IS THIS LEVEL OF RISK APPROPRIATE OR IS THERE A LEVEL OF RISK THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE? MS. HAUGEN: I THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO REFRAME SOME OF THESE OVERSIGHT ACTIONS. WHEN WE THINK OF THEM AS TRADE-OFFS OF EITHER PROFITABLE YOUR SAFETY, I THINK THAT'S A FALSE CHOICE. IN REALITY, THE THING I'M ASKING FOR IS A MOVE FROM SHORT-TERM IS
02:16:34
HIM, IT LED BY METRICS AND NOT BY PEOPLE, AND WITH APPROPRIATE OVERSIGHT AND SOME OF THESE CONSTRAINTS, IT POSSIBLE FACEBOOK COULD HAVE A MUCH MORE PROFITABLE COMPANY FIVE OR 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE IT'S NOT AS TOXIC AND NOT AS MANY PEOPLE QUIT IT, BUT THAT'S ONE OF THOSE COUNTERFACTUAL'S THAT WE CAN'T TEST. REGULATION MIGHT ACTUALLY MAKE IT MORE PROFITABLE IN THE LONG RUN. SEN. HICKENLOOPER: THAT'S THE SAME FOR AUTOMOBILES -- THERE'S SO MUCH PUSHBACK AT THE BEGINNING.
02:17:08
THE QUESTION OF HOW DO WE ASSESS THE IMPACT OF THE BOTTOM LINE -- WE HAD A FACEBOOK REPRESENTATIVE IN HERE WHO TALKED ABOUT EIGHT OUT OF 10 FACEBOOK USERS FEEL THEIR LIFE IS BETTER AND THEIR JOB IS TO GET TO 10 OUT OF 10. MAYBE THIS IS THE 20% THEY ARE MISSING. I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THE DEMOGRAPHIC IS OF PEOPLE CAUGHT BACK UP INTO THIS CIRCUITOUS SENSE OF TAKING THEM DOWN INTO THE WRONG DIRECTION, HOW ANY
02:17:44
PEOPLE THAT IS. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA? MS. HAUGEN: THAT QUOTE LAST WEEK WAS REALLY SHOCKING TO ME. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE AWARE OF THIS, BUT IN THE CASE OF CIGARETTES, ONLY 10% OF PEOPLE WHO SMOKE EVER GET LUNG CANCER. SO THE IDEA THAT 20% OF YOUR USERS COULD BE FACING SERIOUS MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES AND THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM IS SHOCKING. I ALSO WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT EATING DISORDERS ARE SERIOUS. THERE WILL BE WOMEN WALKING AROUND WITH BRITTLE BONES BECAUSE OF CHOICES FACEBOOK MADE
02:18:17
EMPHASIZING PROFIT TODAY. OR THERE WILL BE WOMEN IN 20 YEARS WHO WANT TO HAVE BABIES WHO CAN'T BECAUSE THEY ARE INFERTILE AS A RESULT OF EATING DISORDERS TODAY. THEY ARE SERIOUS AND I THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR HAVING PUBLIC OVERSIGHT AND PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT, ESPECIALLY IN MATTERS THAT IMPACT CHILDREN. SEN. HICKENLOOPER: INC. YOU FOR BEING SO DIRECT ON THIS AND STEPPING FORWARD. I YIELD BACK THE FLOOR. CHAIR BLUMENTHAL: SENATOR CRUZ. SEN. CRUZ: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN, MS. HAUGEN, WELCOME.
02:18:51
WHEN IT CONCERNS FACEBOOK, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF CONCERNS THIS COMMITTEE IN CONGRESS HAS BEEN FOCUSED ON. TWO OF WHICH HAVE BEEN FACEBOOK'S INTENTIONAL TARGETING OF KIDS WITH CONTENT THAT IS HARMFUL TO THE CHILDREN. SECONDLY AS -- IS ENGAGING IN POLITICAL CENSORSHIP. I WANT TO START WITH THE FIRST ISSUE, TARGETING KIDS. AS YOU ARE AWARE AND THE DOCUMENTS YOU PROVIDED INDICATED, FACEBOOK'S, ACCORDING
02:19:24
TO THE PUBLIC REPORTING ON IT, FACEBOOK'S INTERNAL REPORTS FOUND INSTAGRAM MAKES "BODY IMAGE ISSUES WORSE FOR ONE IN THREE TEEN GIRLS" AND IT SHOWED "13% OF BRITISH USERS AND 6% OF AMERICAN USERS TRACE THEIR DESIRE TO KILL THEMSELVES TO INSTAGRAM." IS THAT A FAIR AND ACCURATE CHARACTERIZATION OF WHAT FACEBOOK'S RESEARCH CONCLUDED? MS. HAUGEN: I ONLY KNOW WHAT I READ IN THE DOCUMENTS I INCLUDED IN MY DISCLOSURE.
02:19:59
THAT'S AN ACCURATE DESCRIPTION OF THE ONES I HAVE READ. BECAUSE FACEBOOK HAS NOT COME FORWARD WITH THE TOTAL CORPUS OF THEIR KNOWN RESEARCH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE OTHER THINGS SAY, BUT THERE ARE DOCUMENTS THAT SAY THOSE THINGS. SEN. CRUZ: SO IN TESTIMONY LAST WEEK WITH A WITNESS FROM FACEBOOK WHO CLAIMS THAT INFORMATION WAS NOT ACCURATE AND NEEDED TO BE IN CONTEXT, AND OF COURSE SHE WAS NOT WILLING TO PROVIDE THE MYSTERIOUS CONTEXT, DO YOU KNOW OF ANY CONTEXT THAT WOULD MAKE THOSE DATA ANYTHING OTHER THAN HORRIFYING AND DEEPLY DISTURBING? MS. HAUGEN: ENGAGEMENT-BASED
02:20:33
RANKING IN PROPHECIES OF AMPLIFICATION IMPACT ALL USERS OF FACEBOOK. THE ALGORITHMS ARE VERY SMART IN THE SENSE THEY LATCH ONTO THINGS PEOPLE WANT TO CONTINUE TO ENGAGE WITH. UNFORTUNATELY, WITH THE CASE OF TEEN GIRLS AND THINGS LIKE SELF-HARM, THEY DEVELOP FEEDBACK CYCLES WHERE CHILDREN ARE USING INSTAGRAM TO SELF-SOOTHE THEY ARE EXPOSED TO MORE CONTENT THAT MAKES THEM HATE THEMSELVES. WE CAN'T SAY 80% OF KIDS ARE OK, WE HAVE TO SAY HOW DO WE SAVE ALL THE KIDS? SEN. CRUZ: WALL STREET JOURNAL
02:21:09
REPORTED MARK ZUCKERBERG WAS PERSONALLY AWARE OF THIS RESEARCH. DO YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION AS TO HIS AWARENESS OF THE RESEARCH? MS. HAUGEN: TWO THINGS -- ONE OF THE DOCUMENTS INCLUDED IN THE DISCLOSURES DETAILS SOMETHING CALLED PROJECT DAISY, WHICH IS AN INITIATIVE TERM OF OFFICE LIKE INSTAGRAM. IT SHOWS THAT THEY ARE NOT EFFECTIVE UNLESS THEY LEAVE COMMENTS ON THIS POST. YET THE RESEARCH PRESENTED TO MARK ZUCKERBERG SAID WE SHOULD PURSUE THIS EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT EFFECTIVE BECAUSE THE
02:21:43
GOVERNMENT, JOURNALISTS, AND ACADEMICS WANT US TO DO THIS. IT WOULD GET US POSITIVE POINTS IN THE PUBLIC. THAT KIND OF DUPLICITY IS WHY WE NEED TO HAVE MORE TRANSPARENCY AND WHY, IF WE WANT TO HAVE A SYSTEM THAT IS COHERENT WITH DEMOCRACY, WE MUST HAVE PUBLIC OVERSIGHT FROM CONGRESS. SEN. CRUZ: DO YOU KNOW IF FACEBOOK AND THE RESEARCH CONDUCTED ATTEMPTED TO QUANTIFY HOW MANY TEENAGE GIRLS MAY HAVE TAKEN THEIR LIVES BECAUSE OF FACEBOOK'S PRODUCTS? GUEST: I AM NOT AWARE OF -- MS. HAUGEN: I AM NOT AWARE OF THAT RESEARCH.
02:22:15
SEN. CRUZ: DO YOU KNOW -- THAT DO YOU KNOW IF THEY MADE ANY CHANGES IN RESPONSE TO THAT RESEARCH TO TRY TO CORRECT OR MITIGATE THAT? MS. HAUGEN: I FOUND IT SO PRIZING THAT WHEN ANTONIA DAVIS WAS CONFRONTED WITH THIS, SHE COULD NOT ENUMERATE A FIVE-POINT PLAN OR 10 POINT PLAN OF THE ACTIONS THEY TOOK. I ALSO FOUND IT SHOCKING THAT FACEBOOK DID NOT DISCLOSE THIS INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC BECAUSE THIS IS THE KIND OF THING THAT SHOULD HAVE OVERSIGHT FROM CONGRESS. SEN. CRUZ: WHEN YOU WERE AT
02:22:52
FACEBOOK, WHERE THEIR DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HOW TO RESPOND TO THIS? MS. HAUGEN: I DID NOT WORK ON ISSUES CONCERNING CHILDREN, SO I AM NOT AWARE OF THEM. SEN. CRUZ: DO YOU HAVE THOUGHTS AS TO WHAT KINDS OF CHANGES FACEBOOK COULD MAKE TO REDUCE OR ILLUMINATE THESE FARMS? MS. HAUGEN: YOU MENTIONED EARLIER CONCERNS AROUND FREE SPEECH. A LOT OF THE THINGS I ADVOCATE FOR OUR AROUND CHANGING THE MECHANISMS OF AMPLIFICATION, NOT AROUND PICKING WINNERS AND LOSERS IN THE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS. SEN. CRUZ: EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS. MS. HAUGEN: HOW ON TWITTER, YOU
02:23:28
HAVE TO CLICK THROUGH ON A LINK BEFORE YOU RE-SHARE IT, SMALL ACTIONS LIKE THAT DON'T REQUIRE PICKING GOOD IDEAS AND BAD IDEAS, IT JUST MAKES THE PLATFORM LESS REACTIVE. FACEBOOK'S INTERNAL RESEARCH SAYS EACH ONE OF THOSE SMALL ACTIONS DRAMATICALLY REDUCES MISINFORMATION, HATE SPEECH, AND VIOLENCE-INCITING CONTENT ON THE PLATFORM. SEN. CRUZ: WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, BUT ON THE SECOND MAJOR TOPIC OF CONCERN, WHICH IS CENSORSHIP, ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT POLITICAL CENSORSHIP AT FACEBOOK AND BIG TECH? MS. HAUGEN: I BELIEVE YOU CANNOT
02:24:01
HAVE A SYSTEM THAT HAS AS BIG AN IMPACT ON SOCIETY AS FACEBOOK DOES TODAY -- I'M A STRONG PERFORMANCE -- A STRONG PROPONENT OF CHRONOLOGICAL RANKING WITH SPAM DEVOTION BECAUSE I THINK WE DON'T WANT COMPUTERS DECIDING WHAT WE FOCUS ON. IF YOU HAVE SOFTWARE THAT IS HUMAN-SCALED WHERE HUMANS HAVE CONVERSATIONS NOT COMPUTERS FACILITATING WHO WE GET INFORMATION FROM. SEN. CRUZ: HOW DO WE GET MORE TRANSPARENCY? MS. HAUGEN: I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE
02:24:36
SOME KIND OF REGULATORY BODY THAT COULD WORK WITH ACADEMICS, RESEARCHERS, OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES TO SYNTHESIZE REQUESTS FOR DATA THAT ARE PRIVACY-CONSCIENCE. THIS IS AN AREA I'M CONCERNED ABOUT. NO ONE CAN FORCE FACEBOOK TO DISCLOSE DATA AND FACEBOOK HAS BEEN STONEWALLING OR WORSE, GIVING INACCURATE DATA TO RESEARCHERS. SEN. CRUZ: WHAT DATA SHOULD THEY TURN OVER TO MARK -- TURNOVER? MS. HAUGEN: WHAT INTEGRITY
02:25:13
SYSTEMS EXIST TODAY AND HOW DO THEY PERFORM? THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE FACEBOOK IS CONVEYING AROUND THE WORLD THAT SAFETY SYSTEMS APPLY TO THEIR LANGUAGE AND THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT AWARE THEY ARE USING A RAW, ORIGINAL DANGEROUS VERSION OF FACEBOOK. BASIC ACTIONS LIKE TRANSPARENCY WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE. CHAIR BLUMENTHAL: SENATOR LOOMIS? SEN. LUMMIS: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY. IF YOU WERE IN MY SEAT TODAY INSTEAD OF YOUR SEAT, WHAT
02:25:47
DOCUMENTS WERE UNANSWERED QUESTIONS WOULD YOU SEEK FROM FACEBOOK, ESPECIALLY AS IT RELATES TO CHILDREN, BUT EVEN GENERALLY SPEAKING? MS. HAUGEN: I THINK ANY RESEARCH REGARDING WHAT FACEBOOK DOES WITH PROBLEMATIC USE, THE ADDICTIVENESS OF THE PRODUCT AND ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT FACEBOOK KNOWS ABOUT PARENTS LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE PLATFORM. I ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE DOCUMENTS I HAVE SEEN. I DO NOT WORK ON TEENS OR CHILD SAFETY MYSELF. BUT IN THE DOCUMENTS I READ, FACEBOOK ARTICULATES THE IDEA
02:26:22
THAT PARENTS TODAY ARE NOT AWARE OF HOW DANGEROUS INSTAGRAM IS AND COME UP THEY THEMSELVES DID NOT LIVE THROUGH THESE EXPERIENCES, THEY CANNOT COACH THEIR KIDS ON BASIC SAFETY THINGS. AT A MINIMUM, FACEBOOK SHOULD HAVE TO DISCLOSE WHAT IT KNOWS IN THAT CONTEXT. SEN. LUMMIS: WE ARE TRYING TO PER TACT -- TRYING TO PROTECT INDIVIDUAL DATA, BUT HAVE TRANSPARENCY IN THE MANNER IN WHICH THE DATA IS USED. CAN WE BRIDGE THAT GAP?
02:26:58
MS. HAUGEN: REASONABLE PEOPLE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION ON HOW MAY PEOPLE NEED TO SEE A PIECE OF CONTENT BEFORE IT'S NOT REALLY PRIVATE. IF 100,000 PEOPLE SEE SOMETHING, IS IT PRIVATE? IF 25,000 PEOPLE SEE IT, IS IT PRIVATE? JUST DISCLOSING MOST POPULAR CONTENT ON THE PLATFORM, INCLUDING STATISTICS AROUND WHAT FACTORS WENT INTO THE PROMOTION OF THAT CONTENT WOULD CAUSE RADICALLY MORE TRANSPARENCY THAN WE HAVE TODAY ON HOW FACEBOOK CHOOSES WHAT WE GET TO FOCUS ON AND HOW THEY SHAPE OUR REALITY. SEN. LUMMIS: IF OUR FOCUS IS
02:27:33
PROTECTING THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND THE RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH WHILE VERY CAREFULLY REGULATING DATA PRIVACY -- THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS BEING DISCUSSED IN CONGRESS. EVERYTHING FROM ANTITRUST LAWS TO CALLING FACEBOOK A UTILITY TO THE IDEA THAT YOU JUST RAISED OF A REGULATORY BOARD OF SOME SORT.
02:28:07
THAT HAS AUTHORITY THROUGH UNDERSTANDING OF THE ALGORITHMS AND HOW THEY ARE USED AND OTHER MECHANISMS THAT CREATE WHAT WE SEE, THE FACE OF FACEBOOK, SO TO SPEAK. TELL ME A LITTLE MORE ABOUT HOW YOU ENVISION THAT BOARD WORKING. BASED ON YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE COMPANY AND THE ILL CONSEQUENCES, WHAT IS THE BEST APPROACH TO BRIDGING THE GAP BETWEEN KEEPING SPEECH FREE AND
02:28:48
PROTECTING INDIVIDUAL PRIVACY WITH REGARD TO DATA? MS. HAUGEN: I THINK THOSE ISSUES ARE INDEPENDENT ISSUES. WE CAN TALK ABOUT FREE SPEECH FIRST, WHICH IS HAVING MORE TRANSPARENCY. FACEBOOK HAS SOLUTIONS TODAY THAT ARE NOT CONTENT-BASED. I'M A STRONG ADVOCATE FOR NON-CONTENT-BASED SOLUTIONS BECAUSE THOSE SOLUTIONS WILL PROTECT THE MOST VULNERABLE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. IN A PLACE LIKE ETHIOPIA, WHERE THEY SPEAK SIX LANGUAGES, IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT FOCUSES ON GOOD IDEAS AND BAD IDEAS, THOSE SYSTEMS DON'T WORK IN DIVERSE
02:29:22
PLACES. INVESTING IN NON-CONTENT-BASED WAYS TO SLOW THE PLATFORM DOWN NOT ONLY PROTECTS OUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH BUT PROTECTS PEOPLE'S LIVES. THE SECOND QUESTION IS AROUND PRIVACY, HOW CAN WE HAVE OVERSIGHT AND PRIVACY? THERE'S LOTS OF RESEARCH ON HOW TO EXTRACT ETA SETS SO YOU ARE NOT SHOWING PEOPLE'S NAMES. YOU MIGHT NOT EVEN BE SHOWING THE CONTENT OF THEIR POSTS. THERE ARE ANY WAYS TO STRUCTURE THESE DATA SETS THAT ARE CONSCIOUS AND EVEN BASIC THINGS
02:29:57
ABOUT HOW THE PLATFORM PERFORMS OR IN THE CASE OF THEIR PAST RESEARCH, RELEASING INACCURATE DATA OR NOT BEING CLEAR ABOUT HOW THEY PULL THAT DATA IS PART OF A PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR FACEBOOK HIDING BEHIND WALLS AND OPERATING IN THE SHADOWS AND THEY HAVE FAR TOO MUCH POWER IN OUR SOCIETY TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE THAT WAY. SEN. LUMMIS: I HEARD YOU MAKE THE ANALOGY EARLIER TO THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY AND I THINK THAT IS AN APPROPRIATE ANALOGY. I BELIEVE WE ARE SEARCHING FOR THE BEST WAY TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM.
02:30:34
I'M NOT SURE IT IS THE HEAVY HAND LIKE BREAKING UP COMPANIES OR CALLING THEM A UTILITY, WHICH IS WHY YOUR APPROACH OF INTEGRATING PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND THE MATH AND THE USES OF THE MATH WITH PROTECTING PRIVACY IS INTRIGUING TO ME. THE MORE INFORMATION YOU CAN PROVIDE TO US, ABOUT HOW THAT MIGHT WORK TO ACTUALLY ADDRESS
02:31:10
THE PROBLEM, I THINK WOULD BE HELPFUL. IN MY CASE, THIS IS AN INVITATION TO YOU TO PROVIDE TO MY OFFICE WHERE THE COMMITTEE INFORMATION ABOUT HOW WE CAN GET AT THE WOOD OF THE PROBLEM YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED AND CAN DOCUMENT AND SAVE PEOPLE'S PRIVACY. I EXTEND THAT INVITATION TO YOU AND I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY. I YELLED BACK.
02:31:45
CHAIR BLUMENTHAL: SENATOR SULLIVAN? SEN. SULLIVAN: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I WANT TO THANK OUR WITNESS HERE FOR THE GOOD HEARING. A LOT OF INFORMATION HAS BEEN LEARNED. PARTICULATE ON THE ISSUE OF HOW THIS IS IMPACTING OUR KIDS I THINK WE ARE GOING TO LOOK BACK 20 YEARS FROM NOW AND ALL OF US ARE GOING TO BE LIKE WHAT IN THE HELL WERE WE THINKING WHEN WE RECOGNIZE THE DAMAGE THAT'S DONE
02:32:20
TO A GENERATION OF KIDS. DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? MS. HAUGEN: WHEN FACEBOOK HAS MADE STATEMENTS IN THE PAST ABOUT HOW MUCH BENEFIT INSTAGRAM IS PROVIDING TO KIDS DENTAL HEALTH, THOSE KIDS ARE CONNECTING ALONE. IF INSTAGRAM IS SUCH A POSITIVE FORCE, HAVE WE SEEN A GOLDEN AGE OF TEENAGE MENTAL HEALTH AND THE LAST 10 YEARS? WE HAVE SEEN ESCALATING RATES OF SUICIDE AND DEPRESSION. SEN. SULLIVAN: DO YOU THINK THOSE RATES ARE AT LEAST IN PART DRIVEN BY THE SOCIAL MEDIA PHENOMENON? MS. HAUGEN: THERE'S A BROAD
02:32:57
SWATH OF RESEARCH THAT SUPPORTS THE USE OF SOCIAL MEDIA AMPLIFIES THE RISK OF THESE MENTAL HEALTH HARMS. SEN. SULLIVAN: THIS HEARING IS HELP ELIMINATING IT. MS. HAUGEN: AND FACEBOOK'S OWN RESEARCH SHOWS THAT. KIDS ARE SAYING I'M UNHAPPY WHEN I USE INSTAGRAM AND I CAN'T STOP. IF I LEAVE, I'M AFRAID I WILL BE OSTRACIZED. AND THAT IS SO SAD. SEN. SULLIVAN: SO, THEY KNOW THAT. MS. HAUGEN: THAT IS WHAT THEIR RESEARCH SHOWS. SEN. SULLIVAN: I HAD A DISCUSSION WITH THE WITNESS LAST
02:33:32
WEEKEND SAID -- I THINK THEY CALLED IT THEIR TIMEOUT. I SAID IT MET INCOMPATIBLE WITH YOUR BUSINESS MODEL? YOUR BUSINESS MODEL IS MORE TIME ONLINE, MORE EYEBALLS ONLINE. ISN'T THAT THE FUNDAMENTAL ELEMENT OF THEIR BUSINESS MODEL? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK HAS HAD AN INTERESTING OPPORTUNITY AND A CHALLENGE FROM BEING A CLOSED SYSTEM. THEY'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HIDE THEIR PROBLEMS AND LIKE PEOPLE OFTEN DO WHEN THEY CAN HIDE THEIR PROBLEMS, THEY GET IN OVER THEIR HEADS WILL STOP FACEBOOK NEEDS NO OPPORTUNITY TO
02:34:07
HAVE CONGRESS STEP IN AND SAY GUESS WHAT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO STRUGGLE BY YOURSELF ANYMORE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO PLAN THEY ARE NOT PROBLEMS. YOU CAN DECLARE MORAL BANKRUPTCY AND WE CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS TOGETHER. WE SOLVE PROBLEMS TOGETHER, WE DON'T SOLVE THEM ALONE. SEN. SULLIVAN: I APPRECIATE THE PHRASE U.N. THE CHAIRMAN HAVE BEEN USING -- THEY KNOW THIS IS A PROBLEM AND IMPACTING NEGATIVELY THAT MENTAL HEALTH OF THE MOST PRECIOUS AT SETS -- ASSETS WE HAVE, OUR KIDS. I HAVE THREE DAUGHTERS.
02:34:41
THEY KNOW THAT IS HAPPENING AND YET THE MORAL BANKRUPTCY, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE IS THE CONTINUATION OF THIS SIMPLY BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THEY MAKE MONEY? MS. HAUGEN: I WOULD SAY IT SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY. WE HAVE FINANCIAL BANKRUPTCY BECAUSE WE VALUE THAT MORE THAN PEOPLE'S LIVES. WE HAVE A PROCESS WHERE THEY ADMIT THEY DID SOMETHING WRONG AND WE FORGIVE THEM AND HAVE A WAY FOR THEM TO MOVE FORWARD. FACEBOOK IS STUCK IN A FEEDBACK LOOP THEY CANNOT GET OUT OF.
02:35:15
THEY'VE BEEN HIDING THIS BECAUSE A FIELD TRAPPED. THEY WOULD COME FORWARD AND ADMIT THEY DID SOMETHING WRONG AND THEY NEED HELP TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS. THAT'S WHAT MORAL BANKRUPTCY IS. SEN. SULLIVAN: I'M GOING TO SWITCH GEARS HERE. WHAT IS YOUR CURRENT POSITION IN TERMS OF DISINFORMATION COUNTERESPIONAGE? MS. HAUGEN: MY LAST ROLE AT FACEBOOK WAS IN COUNTERESPIONAGE. SEN. SULLIVAN: THIS IS A VERY DIFFERENT TOPIC AND I ONLY HAVE A MINUTE OR SO LEFT STOP RIGHT NOW, I KNOW FACEBOOK IS NOT ALLOWED IN COUNTRIES LIKE CHINA.
02:35:49
BUT DO THEY PROVIDE PLATFORMS FOR AUTHORITARIAN OR TERRORIST-BASED LEADERS LIKE THE AYATOLLAHS IN IRAN, THE LARGEST STATE SPONSOR OF TERRORISM IN THE WORLD OR THE TALIBAN OR XI JINPING, IN MY VIEW, OUR BIGGEST RIVAL IN THIS CENTURY, A COMMUNIST PARTY DICTATOR TRYING TO EXPORT HIS AUTHORITARIAN MODEL AROUND THE WORLD. DO THEY PROVIDE A PLATFORM FOR
02:36:22
THOSE KIND OF LEADERS WHO IN MY VIEW CLEARLY DON'T HOLD AMERICA'S INTERESTS IN MIND? DOES FACEBOOK PROVIDE THAT? MS. HAUGEN: DURING MY TIME WORKING WITH THE THREAT INTELLIGENCE ORG SUPPORTING THE COUNTERESPIONAGE TEAM, MY TEAM DIRECTLY WORKED ON TRACKING CHINESE PARTICIPATION ON THE PLATFORM, SURVEILLING, SAY UIGHUR POPULATIONS AROUND THE WORLD. YOU COULD FIND THAT CHINESE DOING THESE KINDS OF THINGS.
02:36:58
WE ALSO SAW ACTIVE PARTICIPATION OF THE IRAN GOVERNMENT DOING ESPIONAGE ON OTHER STATE ACTORS. THIS IS DEFINITELY A THING THAT IS HAPPENING AND I BELIEVE A CONSISTENT UNDERSTAFFING OF THE COUNTERESPIONAGE INFORMATION OPERATION AND TERRORISM TEAM IS A NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE AND I'M SPEAKING TO OTHER PARTS OF CONGRESS ABOUT THAT. SEN. SULLIVAN: YOU ARE SAYING IN ESSENCE, WHETHER AT PLATFORM KNOWS IT OR NOT, IS BEING USED BY SOME OF OUR ADVERSARIES IN A WAY THAT HELPS PUSH AND PROMOTE THEIR INTEREST AT THE EXPENSE OF AMERICAS?
02:37:33
MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK IS VERY AWARE THIS IS HAPPENING ON THE PLATFORM. I BELIEVE THE FACT THAT CONGRESS DOESN'T GET A REPORT ON HOW MONEY PEOPLE ARE WORKING ON THESE THINGS INTERNALLY IS UNACCEPTABLE BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO KEEP THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SAFE. CHAIR BLUMENTHAL: THANK YOU, SENATOR SULLIVAN, YOU MAY HAVE JUST OPENED AN AREA FOR ANOTHER HEARING. MS. HAUGEN: I HAVE STRONG NATIONAL SECURITY CONCERNS ABOUT HOW FACEBOOK OPERATES. SEN. SULLIVAN:, MR. CHAIRMAN, I THINK WE SHOULD. CHAIR BLUMENTHAL: I AM NOT BEING
02:38:07
AT ALL FACETIOUS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR QUESTIONS AND I KNOW YOU HAVE A BUSY SCHEDULE BUT WE MAY WANT TO DISCUSS THIS ISSUE, WITH MEMBERS OF OUR COMMITTEE AT LEAST INFORMALLY IF YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO COME BACK FOR ANOTHER HEARING. THAT IS CERTAINLY WITHIN THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY. I HAVE NOT CONSULTED THE RANKING MEMBER OR CHAIRWOMAN, BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR HONESTY AND CANDOR ON THAT TOPIC. SENATOR SCOTT. SEN. SCOTT: THANKS FOR COMING FORWARD AND COMING FORWARD IN A
02:38:41
MANNER THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE POSITIVE CHANGE. EARLIER THIS YEAR, FACEBOOK AND OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA FORMS, HAVING THEM DETAIL THE IMPACT THEIR PLATFORMS HAVE ON CHILDREN AND TEENS. YOUR REPORT CONCLUDES FACEBOOK HAS BEEN FULLY AWARE OF THIS FOR QUITE A WHILE AND THE HARMFUL IMPACT ESPECIALLY ON YOUNG WOMEN. WE ALL AGREE THAT'S COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE PROTECT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE VULNERABLE FROM THE HARMFUL IMPACTS OF FACEBOOK AND OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS.
02:39:15
DO YOU THINK THERE SHOULD BE GREATER CONSIDERATION FOR AGE WHEN IT COMES TO USING SOCIAL MEDIA? MS. HAUGEN: I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE RAGES -- RAISING AGE LIMITS TO 16 OR 18 YEARS OLD LOOKING AT THE DATA ON PROBLEMATIC USE OR ADDICTION ON THE PLATFORM. AND CHILDREN SELF-REGULATION ISSUES. SEN. SCOTT: YOU ADDRESS THIS A LITTLE BIT, BUT WHY DO YOU THINK FACEBOOK DID NOT ADDRESS THIS PUBLICLY WHEN THEY FIGURED IT OUT INTERNALLY THEY WERE HAVING AN ADVERSE IMPACT ON YOUNG PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY WOMEN? WHY DIDN'T THEY COME FORWARD AND SAY WE HAVE A PROBLEM AND HAVE
02:39:51
TO FIGURE THIS OUT? MS. HAUGEN: I HAVE A HUGE AMOUNT OF EMPATHY FOR FACEBOOK. THESE ARE REALLY HARD QUESTIONS I THINK THEY FEEL A LITTLE TRAPPED AND ISOLATED. THE PROBLEMS DRIVING NEGATIVE SOCIAL COMPARISON ON INSTAGRAM, FACEBOOK'S OWN RESEARCH SAYS INSTAGRAM IS DISTINCTLY WORSE THAN TIKTOK OR SNAPCHAT OR READ IT BECAUSE INSTAGRAM -- TIKTOK IS ABOUT DOING FUN THINGS WITH YOUR FRIEND, SNAPCHAT IS ABOUT FACES AND AUGMENTED REALITY,
02:40:24
READ IT IS VAGUELY ABOUT IDEAS, BUT INSTAGRAM IS ABOUT BODIES AND COMPARING LIFESTYLES. I THINK THERE ARE REAL QUESTIONS WHERE INSTAGRAM WOULD HAVE TO COME AND THINK HARD ABOUT THEIR PRODUCTS OR WHAT IS THEIR PRODUCT ABOUT? I DON'T THINK THOSE ANSWERS ARE IMMEDIATELY OBVIOUS. I THINK THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO SOLVE PROBLEMS TOGETHER AND NOT ALONE BECAUSE COLLABORATING WITH THE PUBLIC WOULD GIVE US BETTER SOLUTIONS. SEN. SCOTT: DO YOU THINK FACEBOOK WAS TRYING TO MITIGATE THE PROBLEM? MS. HAUGEN: WITHIN THE SET OF INCENTIVES THEY WERE WORKING WITH, THEY DID THE BEST THEY COULD. UNFORTUNATELY, THOSE INCENTIVES ARE NOT SUSTAINABLE AND ARE NOT
02:41:00
ACCEPTABLE IN OUR SOCIETY. SEN. SCOTT: DO YOU THINK FACEBOOK AND OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS OUT TO BE REQUIRED TO REPORT ANY HARMFUL EFFECTS THEY HAVE ON YOUNG PEOPLE? MS. HAUGEN: ONE OF THE THINGS I FOUND VERY INTERESTING AFTER THE REPORT IN THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" ON TEEN MENTAL HEALTH WAS A FORMER EXECUTIVE SAID FACEBOOK NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO HAVE PRIVATE RESEARCH. PART I WAS OFFENDED BY IS FACEBOOK HAS HAD RESEARCH ON THE NEGATIVE EFFECTS OF INSTAGRAM ON TEENAGERS FOR YEARS. I STRONGLY SUPPORT THEY SHOULD HAVE A YEAR OR 18 MONTHS TO HAVE PRIVATE RESEARCH, BUT GIVEN THEY ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD THAT CAN DO THIS KIND OF
02:41:36
RESEARCH, THE PUBLIC NEVER GETS TO DO IT, YOU SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO KEEP SECRETS WHEN PEOPLE'S LIVES ARE ON THE LINE. BECAUSE, TO BE CLEAR, THEY MAKE $40 BILLION A YEAR. THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS PULL STUFF THEY ARE CHOOSING NOT TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS. SEN. SCOTT: DOES NOT SURPRISE YOU THEY ARE NOT PUTTING IN THE EFFORT -- IT'S GOING TO CATCH UP WITH THEM EVENTUALLY. MS. HAUGEN: COMING IN AND HAVING OVERSIGHT MIGHT MAKE FACEBOOK A MORE PROFITABLE COMPANY FIVE OR 10 YEARS FROM NOW BECAUSE FACEBOOK'S OWN RESEARCH SHOWS THEY HAVE SOMETHING CALLED AN
02:42:11
INTEGRITY HOLDOUT. THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T GET PROTECTIONS FROM INTEGRITY SYSTEMS TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM. THOSE PEOPLE WHO DEAL WITH THE MORE TOXIC VERSION OF FACEBOOK USE IT LESS. ONE COULD REASON A MORE COLLABORATIVE FACEBOOK MIGHT HAVE MORE USERS FIVE YEARS FROM NOW. SO IT'S IN EVERYONE'S INTEREST. SEN. SCOTT: I HAVE A BILL AND THERE'S A LOT OF BILLS -- MINE IS CALLED THE DATA ACT. IT WOULD REQUIRE EXPRESS --
02:42:44
SHOULDN'T WE CONSENT BEFORE THEY GET TO TAKE EVERYTHING ABOUT US AND GO SELL IT? MS. HAUGEN: FOR SELLING PERSONAL DATA, THAT IS AN ISSUE WE SHOULD HAVE SUBSTANTIALLY MORE CONTROL OVER. MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT WELL INFORMED ON WHAT THE COST ABOUT THE PERSONAL COST OF HAVING THEIR DATA SOLD OUR I WORRY ABOUT PUSHING THAT CHOICE BACK ON INDIVIDUAL CONSUMERS. IN TERMS OF SHOULD PEOPLE HAVE CONSENT TO WORKING WITH ALGORITHMS, I WORRY IF FACEBOOK IS ALLOWED TO GIVE USERS THE
02:43:22
CHOICE, IF YOU WANT AN ENGAGEMENT-BASED USED -- NEWSFEED OR CHRONOLOGICAL NEWS FEED, PEOPLE WILL CHOOSE THE MORE ADDICTIVE OPTION, THE ENGAGEMENT-BASED RANKING, EVEN IF IT IS LEADING TO DAUGHTERS EATING DISORDERS. CHAIR BLUMENTHAL: I THINK WE HAVE CONCLUDED THE FIRST ROUND, UNLESS WE ARE MISSING SOMEONE WHO IS ONLINE. NOT HEARING ANYONE, LET'S GO TO THE SECOND ROUND. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR PATIENCE.
02:43:59
I KNOW YOU HAVE A HARD STOP AT 1:30, SO WE WILL BE RESPECTFUL OF THAT LIMITATION AND I WILL BEGIN BY ASKING A FEW QUESTIONS. FIRST, LET ME SAY, SENATOR KLOBUCHAR VERY APTLY RAISED WITH YOU THE PRINCIPAL OBSTACLE TO OUR ACHIEVING LEGISLATIVE REFORM IN THE PAST, WHICH IS TONS OF MONEY SPENT ON LOBBYISTS AND OTHER KINDS OF INFLUENCE PEDDLING, TO USE A PEJORATIVE
02:44:34
WORD, THAT IS SO EVIDENCE HERE -- SO EVIDENT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS. SOME OF IT IS DARK MONEY, SOME OF IT IS VERY OVERT. THE POINT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE TO YOU PERSONALLY IS YOUR BEING HERE REALLY SENDS A PROFOUND MESSAGE TO OUR NATION THAT ONE PERSON CAN REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE. ONE PERSON STANDING UP, SPEAKING OUT CAN OVERCOME A LOT OF THOSE OBSTACLES FOR US. AND YOU HAVE CRYSTALLIZED IN A WAY OUR CONSCIOUSNESS HERE. YOU HAVE BEEN A CATALYST FOR
02:45:10
CHANGE IN A WAY WE HAVEN'T SEEN, AND I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THESE ISSUES FOR 10, 15 YEARS. YOU HAVE RAISED AWARENESS IN A WAY THAT I THINK IS VERY UNIQUE. THANK YOU NOT ONLY FOR YOUR RISK-TAKING AND COURAGE, AND STRENGTHEN STANDING UP COME BUT ALSO FOR THE EFFECT IT HAS HAD. -- STANDING UP, BUT ALSO FOR THE EFFECT IT HAS HAD. I THINK THERE ARE OTHER WHISTLEBLOWERS OUT THERE. I THINK THERE ARE OTHER TRUTH TELLERS IN THE TECH WORLD WHO
02:45:47
WANT TO COME FORWARD, AND I THINK YOU ARE LEADING BY EXAMPLE. I THINK YOU ARE SHOWING THEM THERE'S A PATH TO MAKE THIS INDUSTRY MORE RESPONSIBLE. AND MORE CARING ABOUT KIDS AND THE NATURE OF OUR PUBLIC DISCOURSE GENERALLY AND THE STRENGTH OF OUR DEMOCRACY. I THINK YOU HAVE GIVEN THEM A BOOST, THOSE WHISTLEBLOWERS OUT THERE, IN POTENTIALLY COMING FORWARD. THAT'S TREMENDOUSLY IMPORTANT. I THINK ALSO, AND YOU CAN TELL
02:46:22
ME IF I'M WRONG, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE ON FACEBOOK WHO ARE CHEERING FOR YOU. BECAUSE THERE ARE PUBLIC REPORTS, AND I KNOW SOME OF MY FRIENDS IN THIS WORLD WHO TELL ME THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WORKING FOR FACEBOOK WHO WISH THEY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY AND COURAGE TO COME FORWARD BECAUSE THEY FEEL A LOT OF RESERVATIONS ABOUT THE WAY FACEBOOK HAS USED THE PLATFORM, USED ALGORITHMS, USED
02:46:57
CONTENT AND PUSHED IT ON KIDS IN THIS WAY. THOSE ARE SORT OF HYPOTHESES THAT I HOPE YOU CAN CONFIRM AND, I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE A LOT OF PARENTS ARE WATCHING RIGHT NOW. YOU HAVE ADVISED US ON WHAT YOU THINK WE SHOULD DO WHETHER REFORMS YOU THINK WE SHOULD ADOPT, STRONGER OVERSIGHT AUTHORIZED BY CONGRESS, BETTER DISCLOSURE, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW,
02:47:36
FACEBOOK IS ESSENTIALLY A BLACK BOX FOR MOST OF AMERICA. FACEBOOK IS A BLACK BOX DESIGNED BY MARK ZUCKERBERG INC., MARK ZUCKERBERG AND HIS IMMEDIATE COTERIE AND THE BUCK STOPS WITH HIM AND REFORM OF SECTION 203, SO THERE'S SOME LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY SO PEOPLE HAVE A DAY IN COURT, SOME KIND OF RECOURSE LEGALLY WHEN THEY ARE HARMED BY FACEBOOK. RIGHT NOW, IT HAS THIS BROAD
02:48:11
IMMUNITY. MOST OF AMERICA HAS NO IDEA ESSENTIALLY, YOU CAN'T SUE FACEBOOK. YOU HAVE NO RECOURSE. MOST AMERICA DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT SECTION 230 AND IF YOU PUSHED A LOT OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, THEY WOULDN'T KNOW EITHER. MS. HAUGEN: IT'S ACTUALLY SLIGHTLY WORSE THAN THAT. FACEBOOK MADE A STATEMENT IN A LEGAL PROCEEDING WHERE THEY SAID THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO MISLEAD THE COURT BECAUSE THEY HAVE IMMUNITY. 230 GAVE THEM IMMUNITY, SO WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE TO TELL THE
02:48:45
TRUTH ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE SHOWING? SHOCKING. CHAIR BLUMENTHAL: IT IS SHOCKING TO A LAWYER, WHICH SOME OF US ARE. IT'S ALSO UTTER DISREGARD AND CONTEMPT FOR THE RULE OF LAW AND THE VERY LEGAL STRUCTURE THAT GIVES THEM THAT KIND OF PROTECTION. IT IS KIND OF A NEW LOW IN CORPORATE CONDUCT, AT LEAST IN COURT. YOU PROVIDED US WITH SOME OF THE
02:49:22
REFORMS YOU THINK ARE IMPORTANT AND I THINK THE OVERSIGHT GOES A LONG WAY BECAUSE IT, IN TURN WOULD MAKE PUBLIC A LOT OF WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS BLACK BOX. BUT, FOR NOW, SINCE A LOT OF TEENS INTO BEANS WILL BE -- TEENS AND TWEENS WILL BE GOING HOME TONIGHT TO ENDURE THE BULLYING, THE EATING DISORDER, THE INVITATIONS TO FEEL INSECURE
02:49:57
ABOUT THEMSELVES, HEIGHTENED ANXIETY, THEY HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE REAL WORLD AS IT EXISTS RIGHT NOW AND THEY WILL BE HAUNTED FOR THEIR LIFETIME BY THESE EXPERIENCES. WHAT WOULD YOU TELL PARENTS RIGHT NOW? WHAT WOULD YOU ADVISE THEM ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN DO BECAUSE THEY NEED MORE TOOLS AND SOME OF THE PROPOSALS THAT HAVE BEEN MENTIONED HERE WOULD GIVE PARENTS MORE TOOLS TO PROTECT THEIR CHILDREN. A LOT OF PARENTS TELL ME THEY FEEL POWERLESS. THEY NEED MORE INFORMATION.
02:50:32
THEY ARE WAY BEHIND THEIR KIDS IN THEIR DEFTNESS ONLINE AND THEY FEEL THEY NEED TO BE EMPOWERED IN SOME WAY TO PROTECT THEIR KIDS IN THE REAL WORLD, RIGHT NOW, IN REAL TIME. SO I OFFER YOU THAT OPEN-ENDED OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR THOUGHTS. MS. HAUGEN: VERY RARELY DO YOU HAVE ONE OF THESE GENERATIONAL SHIFTS WHERE THE GENERATION THAT LEAVES, LIKE PARENTS, WHO GUIDE THEIR CHILDREN HAVE SUCH A
02:51:09
DIFFERENT SET OF EXPERIENCES THAT THEY DON'T HAVE THE CONTEXT TO SUPPORT THEIR CHILDREN IN A SAFE WAY. THERE IS AN ACTIVE NEED FOR SCHOOLS OR MAYBE THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH TO MAKE ESTABLISHED INFORMATION WHERE IF PARENTS WANT TO LEARN HOW THEY CAN SUPPORT THEIR KIDS, IT SHOULD BE EASY FOR THEM TO KNOW WHAT IS CONSTRUCTIVE AND WHAT IS NOT CONSTRUCTIVE BECAUSE FACEBOOK'S OWN RESEARCH SAYS KIDS TODAY FEEL LIKE THEY ARE STRUGGLING ALONE WITH ALL THESE ISSUES BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS CAN'T GUIDE THEM. ONE OF THE THINGS I'M SADDEST
02:51:43
WHEN I LOOK AT ON TWITTER IS PEOPLE BLAME THE PARENTS. THEY SAY JUST TAKE YOUR KIDS PHONE AWAY. THE REALITY IS IT'S A LOT MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT. WE NEED TO SUPPORT PARENTS BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, IF FACEBOOK WON'T PROTECT THE KIDS, WE NEED TO AT LEAST HELP THE PARENTS PROTECT THE KIDS. CHAIR BLUMENTHAL: PARENTS ARE ANGUISHED ABOUT THIS ISSUE. PARENTS ARE HARDLY UNCARING. THEY NEED THE TOOLS, THEY NEED TO BE EMPOWERED, AND I THINK
02:52:18
MAJOR ENCOURAGEMENT FOR REFORM IS GOING TO COME FROM THOSE PARENTS AND YOU HAVE POINTED OUT IN GENERAL, BUT I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO CONFIRM FOR ME, THIS RESEARCH AND THE DOCUMENTS CONTAINING THAT RESEARCH IS NOT ONLY FINDING, IT'S ALSO -- NOT ONLY FINDINGS, ITS RECOMMENDATIONS FOR CHANGES. WHAT I HEAR YOU SAYING IS AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN THESE RECOMMENDATIONS WERE REJECTED OR
02:52:50
DISREGARDED, CORRECT? MS. HAUGEN: THERE'S A PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR I SAW AT FACEBOOK OF FACEBOOK CHOOSING TO PRIORITIZE ITS PROFITS OVER PEOPLE. ANY TIME FACEBOOK FACED EVEN TINY HITS TO ITS GROWTH LIKE .1% , 1% OF USE, THAT IT CHOSE PROFITS OVER SAFETY. CHAIR BLUMENTHAL: AND YOU MENTIONED BONUSES TIED TO DOWNSTREAM MSI? COULD YOU EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEANT? MS. HAUGEN: MSI IS MEANINGFUL SOCIAL INTERACTION.
02:53:24
FACEBOOK'S INTERNAL -- FACEBOOK IS INCREDIBLY FLAT. IT'S THE LARGEST OPEN PLAN OFFICE IN THE WORLD. THEY BELIEVE IN FLAT. INSTEAD OF HAVING INTERNAL GOVERNANCE, THEY HAVE METRICS THEY HAVE TO MOVE. IT DOESN'T MATTER WE HAVE MULTIPLE YEARS OF DATA SAYING MSI MAY BE ENCOURAGING BAD CONTENT, MIGHT BE MAKING IT SAFE THIS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE SCARED WHEN SHOWN INFORMATION THAT PUTS THEM AT RISK. IT'S HARD TO DISLODGE A RULER
02:54:00
LIKE THAT, A YARDSTICK THAT YOU END UP IN A SITUATION WHERE NO ONE IS TAKING LEADERSHIP, NO ONE IS INTENTIONALLY DESIGNING THESE SYSTEMS COMMITS MANY PEOPLE RUNNING IN PARALLEL ALL MOVING THE METRICS THAT THESE PROBLEMS GET AMPLIFIED AND AMPLIFIED AND AMPLIFIED AND NO ONE STEPS AND TO BRING THE SOLUTIONS. CHAIR BLUMENTHAL: I JUST WANT TO FINISH AND I THINK WE HAVE BEEN JOINED BY SENATOR YOUNG AND THEN WE WILL GO TO SENATOR BLACKBURN AND SENATOR KLOBUCHAR. I'VE SPENT A NUMBER OF YEARS AS AN ATTORNEY GENERAL HELPING TO
02:54:37
LEAD LITIGATION AGAINST BIG TOBACCO. I CAME TO HEAR FROM A LOT OF SMOKERS HOW GRATEFUL THEY WERE, IRONICALLY AND UNEXPECTEDLY, THAT SOMEONE WAS FIGHTING BIG TOBACCO BECAUSE THEY FELT THEY HAD BEEN VICTIMIZED AS CHILDREN. THEY STARTED SMOKING WHEN THEY WERE 7, 8, 12 YEARS OLD BECAUSE BIG TOBACCO WAS HOOKING THEM, AND AS WE DEVELOP TO THE RESEARCH, METHODICALLY AND PURPOSELY ADDICTING THEM AT THAT EARLY AGE WHEN THEY BELIEVED
02:55:15
THAT THEY WOULD MAKE THEMSELVES MORE POPULAR IF THEY WOULD BE COOL AND HIP IF THEY BEGAN SMOKING. THEN NICOTINE HOOKS THEM. PHYSIOLOGICALLY, NICOTINE HAS ADDICTIVE PROPERTIES. WHAT IS IT ABOUT FACEBOOK'S TACTICS OF HOOKING YOUNG PEOPLE THAT MAKES IT SIMILAR TO WHAT BIG TOBACCO HAS DONE? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK'S OWN RESEARCH ABOUT INSTAGRAM CONTAINS QUOTES FROM KIDS SAYING
02:55:53
I FEEL BAD WHEN I USE INSTAGRAM, BUT I ALSO FEEL LIKE I CAN'T STOP. I FEEL -- I KNOW MORE TIME I SPEND ON IT, THE WORSE I FEEL, BUT THEY WANT THE NEXT CLICK, THEY WANT THE NEXT LIKE, THE DOPAMINE, THE LITTLE HITS ALL THE TIME. I FEEL A LOT OF PAIN FOR THOSE KIDS. THEY SAY THEY FEAR BEING OSTRACIZED IF THEY STEP AWAY FROM THE PLATFORM. IMAGINE IF YOU ARE IN THIS RELATIONSHIP WHERE EVERY TIME YOU OPEN THE APP, IT MAKES YOU FEEL WORSE. YOU ALSO FEAR ISOLATION IF YOU DON'T. I THINK THERE'S A HUGE
02:56:30
OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SOCIAL MEDIA THAT MAKES KIDS FEEL GOOD, NOT FEEL BAD. WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE SAFE ONLINE. CHAIR BLUMENTHAL: SENATOR YOUNG? SEN. YOUNG: THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMPELLING TESTIMONY. IN THAT TESTIMONY, YOU DISCUSS HOW FACEBOOK GENERATES SELF-HARM AND SELF-HATE, ESPECIALLY AMONG VULNERABLE GROUPS LIKE TEENAGE GIRLS. I HAPPEN TO BE A FATHER OF FOUR
02:57:05
KIDS. THREE DAUGHTERS, TWO OF WHOM ARE TEENAGERS AND AS YOU JUST ALLUDED TO, MOST ADULTS, MYSELF INCLUDED HAVE NEVER BEEN A TEENAGER DURING THE AGE OF FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, AND THESE OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS. THEREFORE, I THINK IT CAN BE REALLY HARD FOR MANY OF US INCLUDING, I WOULD ADD, ONPOSTS, INCLUDING, I WOULD ADD, ON A TEENS MENTAL HEALTH. CAN YOU DISCUSS THIS SHORT AND
02:57:41
LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCES OF BODY IMAGE ISSUES ON THESE PLATFORMS PLEASE? MS. HAUGEN: THE PATTERNS CHILDREN ESTABLISH IN THEIR TEENAGE YEARS LIVE WITH THEM THE REST OF THEIR LIVES. THE WAY THEY CONCEPTUALIZE WHO THEY ARE, HOW THEY CONCEPTUALIZE HOW THEY INTERACT WITH OTHER PEOPLE ARE PATTERNS AND HABITS THEY WILL TAKE WITH THEM AS THEY BECOME ADULTS AND AS THEY THEMSELVES RAISE CHILDREN. I'M VERY SCARED ABOUT THE UPCOMING GENERATION BECAUSE WHEN YOU AND I INTERACT IN PERSON AND I SAY SOMETHING MEAN TO YOU IN
02:58:15
ICU WINDSOR ICU CRY, THAT MAKES ME LESS LIKELY TO DO IT THE NEXT TIME. -- WHEN I SEE YOU WHEN SORE CRY, THAT MAKES IT LESS LIKELY TO DO IT NEXT TIME. WHEN KIDS DON'T SEE THAT REACTION, IT NORMALIZES. WHAT WILL THEIR LIVES LOOK LIKE WHEN THEY GROW UP WHEN THEY THINK IT'S OK TO BE TREATED BADLY BY PEOPLE WHO ALLEGEDLY CARE ABOUT THEM? THAT'S A SCARY FUTURE. SEN. YOUNG: VERY SCARY FUTURE. I SEE SOME EVIDENCE OF THAT AS SO MANY PARENTS ON A REGULAR
02:58:50
BASIS -- ARE THERE OTHER SPECIFIC ISSUES OF SIGNIFICANT CONSEQUENCE THAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC MAY NOT BE FULLY AWARE OF THAT ARE IMPACTING VULNERABLE GROUPS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ALLOCATE DURING THIS TESTIMONY? MS. HAUGEN:NETWORKS EVERY DAY, E HARD TO CONCEPTUALIZE THE DISTRIBUTION PATTERNS OF HARM OR USAGE. THERE ARE THESE THINGS CALLED POWER LAWS, SMALL NUMBER OF USERS ARE EXTREMELY, INTENSELY ENGAGED AND MOST PEOPLE ARE JUST LIGHTLY ENGAGED.
02:59:26
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THINGS LIKE MISINFORMATION, FACEBOOK KNOWS THE PEOPLE EXPOSED TO THE MOST INFORMATION ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE RECENTLY WIDOWED, DIVORCED, MOVED TO A NEW CITY, ARE ISOLATED AND SOME OTHER WAY. WHEN I WORKED ON CIVIC MISINFORMATION, WE DISCUSSED THE IDEA OF THE MISINFORMATION BURDEN, THE IDEA THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE EXPOSED TO IDEAS THAT ARE NOT TRUE OVER AND OVER AGAIN, IT ERODES THEIR ABILITY TO CONNECT WITH THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE BECAUSE THEY NO LONGER ADHERE TO FACTS THAT ARE CONSENSUS REALITY. THE FACT THAT FACEBOOK KNOWS ITS
03:00:02
MOST VULNERABLE YOU NURSE -- VULNERABLE USERS, THAT ARE ISOLATED, THE SYSTEMS ARE -- STOP WORKING WHEN PEOPLE LOOK AT 2000 POSTS A DAY. IT BREAKS MY HEART THE IDEA THAT THESE RABBIT HOLES CAN SUCK PEOPLE DOWN AND MAKE IT HARD TO CONNECT WITH OTHERS. SEN. YOUNG: I DESPERATELY WANT -- WHICH IS THE AMERICAN IMPULSE, I WANT TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM. I VERY MUCH BELIEVE CONGRESS NOT ONLY HAS A ROLE BUT HAS A
03:00:39
RESPONSIBILITY TO FIGURE THIS OUT. I DON'T PRETEND TO HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. I WOULD VALUE YOUR OPINION AS TO WHETHER YOU BELIEVE BREAKING UP FACEBOOK WOULD SOLVE ANY OF THE PROBLEMS YOU HAVE DISCUSSED TODAY? DO YOU THINK IT WOULD? MS. HAUGEN: AS AN ALGORITHMIC SPECIALIST, SOMEONE WHO DESIGNED ALGORITHM EXPERIENCES, I'M AGAINST THE BREAKING UP OF FACEBOOK BECAUSE EVEN LOOKING JUST INSIDE FACEBOOK ITSELF, NOT EVEN FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM, YOU SEE THE PROBLEMS OF ENGAGEMENT-BASED RANKING REPEAT THEMSELVES.
03:01:16
IT'S ABOUT THE IDEA THAT AI IS NOT INTELLIGENT. IF YOU BREAK UP INSTAGRAM AND FACEBOOK FROM EACH OTHER, -- I USED TO WORK ON PINTEREST. THE THING WE FACE FROM A BUSINESS MODEL PERSPECTIVE IS ADVERTISERS DID NOT WANT TO LEARN MULTIPLE ADVERTISING PLATFORMS. THEY GOT ONE PLATFORM FOR INSTAGRAM AND FACEBOOK AND LEARNING IS SECOND 14 PINTEREST, PINTEREST MADE RADICALLY FEWER DOLLARS. RIGHT NOW, FACEBOOK IS THE INTERNET FOR A LOT OF THE WORLD. IF YOU GO TO AFRICA, THE
03:01:51
INTERNET IS FACEBOOK. IF YOU SPLIT FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM APART, IT'S LIKELY MOST OF THE ADVERTISING DOLLARS WILL GO TO INSTAGRAM AND FACEBOOK WILL BE THIS FRANKENSTEIN AND THERE WON'T BE MONEY TO FUND IT. OVERSIGHT AND FINDING COLLABORATIVE SOLUTIONS WITH CONGRESS IS GOING TO BE KEY BECAUSE THE SYSTEMS WILL CONTINUE TO EXIST AND BE DANGEROUS EVEN IF BROKEN UP. SEN. YOUNG: THANK YOU. CHAIR BLUMENTHAL: SENATOR BLACKBURN. SEN. BLACKBURN: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
03:02:27
I HAVE A TEXT JUST PUT ACROSS BY A FACEBOOK -- FACEBOOK SPOKESPERSON. JUST PUTTING OUT THE FACT THAT FRANCIS --FRANCES HAUGEN DID NOT WORK ON THESE ISSUES AND HAS NO INFORMATION ON THE TOPIC ON FACEBOOK. IF FACEBOOK WANTS TO DISCUSS THEIR TARGETING OF CHILDREN, IF THEY WANT TO DISCUSS THEIR
03:03:02
PRACTICES, THEIR PRIVACY INVASION OR VIOLATION OF THE CHILDREN ONLINE PRIVACY ACT, I'M EXTENDING TO YOU AN INVITATION TO STEP FORWARD, BE SWORN IN AND TESTIFY BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE. WE WOULD BE PLEASED TO HEAR FROM YOU AND WELCOME YOUR TESTIMONY. ONE QUICK QUESTION FOR YOU. WHAT IS THE BIGGEST THREAT TO FACEBOOK'S EXISTENCE? IS IT GREED? IS IT REGULATORS? IS IT BECOMING EXTINCT OR
03:03:40
OBSOLETE OR TEENAGE USERS? WHAT'S THE BIGGEST MS. HAUGEN: I THINK THE FACT THAT FACEBOOK IS DRIVEN BY METRICS. EVERY INDIVIDUAL DECISION MAY SEEM LIKE IT HELPS THE GROWTH BUT PEOPLE DON'T ENJOY IT LIKE WHEN THEY PASS MEANINGFUL SOCIAL INTERACTION BACK IN 2018, RESEARCH SAID USERS THAT IT MADE IT LESS MEANINGFUL. I THINK THE AGGREGATED SET OF SHORT-TERM DECISIONS AND
03:04:19
CHANGERS -- ENDANGERS FACEBOOK'S FUTURE BUT SOMETIMES WE NEED TO PULL IT AWAY FROM BUSINESS AS USUAL AND WRITE NEW RULES IF WE WANT TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN THE FUTURE. >> SO THEY CAN SEE THE FOREST FOR THE TREES? MS. HAUGEN: YES, YES. >> I KNOW SENATOR KLOBUCHAR IS WAITING SO I WILL YIELD MY TIME. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP IN ALL THREE OF US ARE ON THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE SO WE ARE ALSO WORKING ON A HOST OF OTHER ISSUES INCLUDING THE APP STORE ISSUE, UNRELATED TO
03:04:54
FACEBOOK ACTUALLY INCLUDING ISSUES RELATING TO DOMINANT PLATFORMS WHEN THEY PROMOTE THEIR OWN CONTENT OR ENGAGE IN EXCLUSIONARY CONTACT -- CONDUCT. I SEE THE THUMBS UP WHICH I APPRECIATE. THE IDEA OF ESTABLISHING RULES OF THE ROAD FOR THESE TECH PLATFORMS GOES BEYOND THE KID PROTECTION WE SO DEARLY NEED TO DO AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU AGREE WITH ME ON THAT. MS. HAUGEN: I WAS SHOCKED WHEN I SAW THE NEW YORK TIMES STORY
03:05:29
ABOUT FACEBOOK PROMOTING POSITIVE NEWS ABOUT ITSELF STOP I WASN'T AWARE THEY DID THAT MUCH. >> THAT'S A LOT OF THE WORK WE ARE DOING OVER THERE. I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT MISINFORMATION. WE HAVE PUT TOGETHER AN EXCEPTION TO THE 230 IMMUNITY WHEN IT COMES TO VACCINE MISINFORMATION IN THE MIDDLE OF A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS. LAST WEEK, YOUTUBE SAID IT WAS SWIFTLY BANNING ALL ANTI-VACCINE MISINFORMATION AND I HAVE LONG CALLED ON FACEBOOK TO TAKE SIMILAR STEPS.
03:06:04
THEY HAVE TAKEN SOME STEPS DO YOU THINK THEY CAN REMOVE THIS CONTENT AND IF THEY PUT SUFFICIENT RESOURCES ON IT -- NO OVER HALF OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T GOTTEN THE VACCINES BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THEY'VE SEEN ON SOCIAL MEDIA. I WALKED INTO A CAFE AND A GUY SAID HIS MOTHER-IN-LAW WOULDN'T GET A VACCINE BECAUSE YOU THOUGHT A MICROCHIP WOULD BE PLANTED IN HER ARM WHICH IS FALSE, BY THE WAY. COULD YOU TALK ABOUT, ARE THERE ENOUGH RESOURCES TO STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING? MS. HAUGEN: I DON'T LEAVE
03:06:43
FACEBOOK IS ABLE TO STOP VACCINE MISINFORMATION BECAUSE THEY RELY ON ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE SYSTEMS. THEY WILL LIKELY NOT AFFECT MORE THAN 10 OR 20% OF INFORMATION. >> AND IT GETS 10 OR $12 TRILLION WHICH BOTHERS ME. DOES FACEBOOK HAVE ENOUGH CONTENT MODERATION FOR CONTENT IN SPANISH AND OTHER LANGUAGES BESIDES ENGLISH? MS. HAUGEN: ONE OF THE THINGS
03:07:18
THAT WAS DISCLOSED, WE HAVE DOCUMENTATION THAT SHOWS MUCH OPERATIONAL INVESTMENT THERE WAS AN OPERATIONAL LANGUAGES AND IT SHOWED A CONSISTENT PATTERN OF UNDERINVESTMENT IN LANGUAGES THAT ARE NOT ENGLISH. I AM DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACEBOOK ABILITY TO OPERATE IN A SAFE WAY IN LANGUAGES BEYOND THE TOP 20 IN THE WORLD. >> THANK YOU, WE GO BACK TO EATING DISORDERS. YOU SAY YOU HAVE DOCUMENTS INDICATING FACEBOOK IS DENTING STUDIES ON KIDS UNDER 13 EVEN THOUGH TECHNICALLY THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED ON THE PLAT WORM.
03:07:55
THE POTENTIAL FOR EATING DISORDER CONTENT RAISES SERIOUS ISSUES AND SENATOR BLUMENTHAL HAS BEEN WORKING ON THIS AND I'VE BEEN FOCUSED ON THIS AS WELL GIVEN THE MORTALITY RATE ALL STOP ARE YOU AWARE OF STUDIES FACEBOOK HAS CONDUCTED WHETHER KIDS UNDER 13 ON THE PLATFORM ARE PUSHED TOWARD CONTENT RELATING TOWARD UNHEALTHY DIET PRACTICES? CNN ALSO DID AN INVESTIGATION ON THIS. MS. HAUGEN: I HAVE NOT SEEN SPECIFIC STUDIES BUT I HAVE SEEN RESEARCH THAT INDICATES THEY ARE
03:08:29
AWARE THAT TEENAGERS COACH BETWEEN TWO OR ON THE PLATFORM TO NOT REVEAL TOO MUCH, TO NOT POST TOO OFTEN AND THEY HAVE CATEGORIZED THAT IS A MYTH, THAT YOU CANNOT BE AUTHENTIC ON THE PLATFORM. THEY SAY THE MARKETING TEAM SHOULD TRY TO ADVERTISE TO TEENAGERS TO STOP COACHING BETWEEN'S THAT WAY. I BELIEVE WE SHARED THAT DOCUMENT WITH CONGRESS. >> THANK YOU. SPEAKING OF THE RESEARCH ISSUE, FACEBOOK HAS TRIED TO DOWNPLAY THE INTERNAL RESEARCH THAT WAS
03:09:05
DONE SAYING IT WAS UNRELIABLE. IT SEEMS THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO MISLEAD US THERE. THEY SURVEYED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TRAVELING AROUND THE WORLD. IN YOUR VIEW, OR THE INTERNAL RESEARCHERS AT FACEBOOK WHO EXAMINE HOW USERS ARE AFFECTED BY THE PLATFORM, IS THERE WORK THOROUGH? ARE THEY EXPERIENCED? IS IT FAIR FOR FACEBOOK TO THROW THEM UNDER THE BUS? MS. HAUGEN: FACEBOOK IS ONE OF THE TOP RESEARCH TEAMS IN THE INDUSTRY. SOME OF THE BIGGEST EUROS AND
03:09:42
THE COMPANY ARE THE RESEARCHERS BECAUSE THEY ARE BOLDLY ASKING REAL QUESTIONS AND BEING WILLING TO SAY AWKWARD TRUTHS. THE FACT THAT FACEBOOK IS THROWING HIM UNDER THE BEST IS UNACCEPTABLE. I STAND WITH THEM. >> MAYBE WE SHOULD SAY IT'S THE UGLY TRUTH. WHAT ABOUT FACEBOOK LOCKING RESEARCHERS FROM NYU FROM EXAMINING THE PLAT WORM? MS. HAUGEN: I AM DEEPLY CONCERNED. FOR THOSE NOT FAMILIAR, THAT RESEARCH IS AT NYU BECAUSE
03:10:16
FACEBOOK IS NOT PUBLISHED ENOUGH DATA ON ADVERTISEMENTS OR HOW THEY ARE DISTRIBUTED, THESE ARE ADVERTISING THAT INFLUENCES OUR DEMOCRACY, THEY HAVE CREATED A PLUG-IN THAT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO OPT INTO VOLUNTEER HELP COLLECT THE DATA AND FASHION -- AND FACEBOOK LASHED OUT AT THEM AND BANNED SOME OF THEIR INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNTS. THE FACT THAT THEY ARE SCARED OF BASIC TRANSPARENCY GOES OUT OF ITS WAY TO BLOCK RESEARCHERS ASKING AWKWARD QUESTIONS SHOWS YOU THE NEED FOR CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT AND WHY WE NEED TO DO
03:10:50
FEDERAL RESEARCH AND FEDERAL REGULATIONS ON THIS. >> THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK. >> SENATOR MARKEY? >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INCREDIBLE LEADERSHIP ON THIS ISSUE. AS EARLY AS 2012, FACEBOOK HAS WANTED TO ALLOW CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF 12 TO USE ITS PLATFORM. AT THAT TIME, I WROTE A LETTER TO FACEBOOK ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT DATA THEY PLANNED TO COLLECT AND WHETHER THE COMPANY
03:11:24
INTENDED TO SERVE TARGETED ADS AT CHILDREN. HERE WE ARE NINE YEARS LATER DEBATING THE VERY SAME ISSUES. TODAY, YOU HAVE MADE IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR WHY FACEBOOK WANTS TO BRING MORE CHILDREN ONTO THE PLAT. IT'S TO HOOK THEM EARLY LIKE CIGARETTES SO THEY BECOME LIFELONG USERS SO FACEBOOK PROFITS INCREASE. YET WE SHOULD ALSO ASK WHY IN THE LAST NINE YEARS, HAS THE COMPANY NOT LOST THEY SPOKE FOR KIDS OR INSTAGRAM FOR KIDS? FACEBOOK APPEARS TO ACT WITHOUT
03:12:01
REGARD TO ANY MORAL CODE OR ANY CONSCIENCE AND INSTEAD PUT PROFIT ABOVE PEOPLE AND ABOVE ALL ELSE. THE REASON WHY FACEBOOK HASN'T OFFICIALLY PERMITTED ITS 12 AND UNDER TO USE HIS PLATFORM IS BECAUSE THE CHILD ONLINE PRIVACY PROTECTION ACT OF 1998. THERE IS A PRIVACY LAW ON THE BOOKS WHICH I OFFER THAT GIVES THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION REGULATORY POWER TO STOP WEBSITES AND SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES FROM INVADING THE PRIVACY OF OUR CHILDREN 12 AND
03:12:37
UNDER. THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO EXPAND THE CHILD ONLINE PRIVACY PROTECTION ACT. THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO PASS THE KIDS ACT THAT SENATOR BLUMENTHAL AND I HAVE INTRODUCED AND WHY WE NEED AN ALGORITHMIC JUSTICE ACT TO PASS. THE ABSENCE OF REGULATION LEADS TO HARMING TEENS, DAMAGING OUR DEMOCRACY. THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE TOLD US TODAY. I WANT YOU TO COME BACK TO THE PROTECTIONS THAT YOU ARE CALLING ON US TO AN ACT. THIS IS NOT COMPLICATED.
03:13:14
WE WILL BE TOLD ONLINE ALL DAY WITH THESE PAID -- CONGRESS CAN'T ACT, THEY ARE NOT EXPERTS, IT'S TOO COMPLICATED FOR CONGRESS. JUST GET OUT OF THE WAY. THIS IS AN COMPLICATED, FACEBOOK AND ITS BIG TECH LOBBYISTS ARE BLOCKING MY BILLS TO PROTECT KIDS BECAUSE IT WOULD COST THEM MONEY. THAT'S HOW COMPLICATED IT IS. LET'S START WITH THE KIDS ACT THAT WOULD BAN INFLUENCER MARKETING TO KIDS, TODAY'S POPULAR INFLUENCERS PETAL PRODUCTS WHILE THEY FLAUNT THEIR
03:13:50
LAVISH LIFESTYLES TO YOUNG USERS. CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW ALLOWING INFLUENCER MARKETING TO TEENS AND CHILDREN MAKES FACEBOOK MORE MONEY? MS. HAUGEN: THE BUSINESS MODEL THAT PROVIDES A GREAT DEAL OF THE CONTENT ON INSTAGRAM IS ONE WHERE PEOPLE PRODUCE CONTENT FOR FREE, THEY -- KNOWN AS CHARGE FOR BUT MANY OF THE CONTENT CREATORS HAVE SPONSORSHIPS FROM BRANDS OR OTHER AFFILIATE
03:14:25
PROGRAMS. FACEBOOK NEEDS THOSE CONTENT CREATORS TO CONTINUE TO MAKE CONTENT SO WE WILL VIEW CONTENT AND MORE ADS. FACEBOOK PROVIDES SUPPORT FOR INFLUENCERS WHO DO IMPLEMENTS HER MARKETING BECAUSE IT GIVES THEM THE SUPPLY OF CONTENT THAT ALLOWS THEM TO KEEP PEOPLE ON THE PLATFORM, VIEWING MORE ADS AND MAKING MORE MONEY FOR THEM. >> SO I AM THE AUTHOR OF THE 1990 CHILDREN'S TELEVISION ACT. WHAT DOES THAT DO? IT SAYS TO THE TELEVISION NETWORKS, STOP PRAYING UPON CHILDREN.
03:15:02
STOP USING ALL OF YOUR POWER IN ORDER TO TRY TO GET YOUNG CHILDREN IN OUR COUNTRY HOOKED ON THE PRODUCTS THAT ARE GOING TO BE SOLD. WE HAD TO PASS A LAW THAT BANNED TELEVISION STATIONS FROM DOING THIS. AFTER MY LAW PASSED IN 1996 TO BREAK UP MANATT'S OF THE TELECOMMUNICATIONS INDUSTRY AND ALLOW THE GOOGLES AND THE FACEBOOK SOME ALL THE OTHER COMPANIES, THAT WE WOULD NEED A CHILD PRIVACY PROTECTION THERE BECAUSE EVERYONE WOULD JUST MOVE OVER TO THAT NEW VENUE. IT WAS PRETTY OBVIOUS IN THE
03:15:38
INDUSTRY SAID NO WAY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PRIVACY LAWS FOR ADULTS AND THEY BLOCKED ME FROM PUTTING THAT ON THE BOOKS IN 1996. AT LEAST FOR CHILDREN, I GOT UP TO AGE 12, THAT'S ALL I COULD GET IN THE INDUSTRY. WE ALSO KNOW THAT AS TIME HAS MOVED ON, THEY HAVE BECOME WERE SOPHISTICATED SO THAT THE KIDS ACT IS NECESSARY TO STOP CHILDREN AND TEEN APPS FROM BEING FEATURES LIKE LIKES AND FOLLOWER ACCOUNTS THAT QUANTIFY POPULARITY.
03:16:13
CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW ALLOWING THESE FEATURES THAT CREATE AN ONLINE POPULARITY MAKES FACEBOOK MORE MONEY? MS. HAUGEN: I'M ONLY FAMILIAR WITH ISSUES REGARDING TEENS FROM THE RESEARCH I HAVE READ ON FACEBOOK. THE RESEARCH I HAVE SEEN WITH REGARDS TO QUANTIFIABLE POPULARITY IS AS LONG AS COMMENTS ARE ALLOWED, THIS IS NOT QUANTITATIVE, JUST COMMENTS. AS LONG AS THEY ARE STILL POSTED ON INSTAGRAM, TAKING THE LIKES
03:16:53
OF DOESN'T FIX THE SOCIAL COMPARISON PROBLEM. TEENAGE GIRLS ARE SMART AND THEY SEE SALLY IS PRETTIER THAN THEM AND HER PICTURES ARE GOOD AND THEY MAKE COMMENTS. I THINK WE NEED LARGER INTERVENTION THAN JUST REMOVING QUANTITATIVE MEASURES. FACEBOOK HAS A PRODUCT THAT IS VERY ATTRACTIVE. THE REASON WHY THEY HAVE THE STUDY OF PROBLEMATIC USES BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF ADDICTIVE. THOSE THINGS LIKE HAVING LOTS OF FEEDBACK LOOPS KEEPS KIDS ENGAGED. PART OF WHY FACEBOOK SWITCHED OVER TO MEANINGFUL SOCIAL
03:17:30
INTERACTIONS WAS IT FOUND THAT IF YOU GOT MORE LIKES, MORE COMMENTS AND MORAE SHARES, YOU PRODUCE MORE COMMENT STEP HAVING THOSE SYSTEMS OF LITTLE REWARD MAKES PEOPLE PRODUCE MORE CONTENT WHICH MEANS THEY VIEW MORE ADS WHICH MAKES THEM MORE MONEY. >> THE KIDS ACT THAT SENATOR BLUMENTHAL AND I ADVOCATED FOR ALSO PROHIBITS AMPLIFICATION OF DANGEROUS AND VIOLENT CONTENT TO CHILDREN AND TEENS. CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW ALGORITHMS ARE PUSHING THAT CONTENTS AND HOW IT'S MAKING FACEBOOK MORE
03:18:04
MONEY? MS. HAUGEN: I DON'T THINK FACEBOOK EVER SET OUT TO POST POLARIZING COMMENT BUT I THINK THEY ARE AWARE OF THE SIDE EFFECTS OF THE CHOICES THEY HAVE MADE AROUND AMPLIFICATION AND THEY KNOW ALGORITHMIC RANKINGS KEEPS YOU ON THEIR SITE LONGER. YOU ARE DOING LONGER SESSIONS AND YOU STAY ON LONGER AND THAT MAKES THEM MORE MONEY. >> DO YOU BELIEVE WE HAVE TO EARN -- BAN ALL FEATURES THAT
03:18:36
HAVE POPULARITY AS A STARTING POINT IN LEGISLATION? MS. HAUGEN: THE INTERNAL RESEARCH I HAVE SEEN IS THAT REMOVING THINGS LIKE LIKES ALONE, IF YOU DON'T REMOVE COMMENTS, IT DOESN'T HAVE A HUGE IMPACT ON SOCIAL COMPARISON. I BELIEVE WE NEED A MORE INTEGRATED SOLUTION STEP >> SHOULD WE BAN TARGETED ADVERTISEMENTS TO CHILDREN? MS. HAUGEN: I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE BANNING TARGETED ADVERTISING TO CHILDREN AND I THINK WE NEED OVERSIGHT. I THINK THEY WILL STILL LEARN THE LIKES OF KIDS BY ALGORITHMS.
03:19:11
>> HOW MUCH MONEY DOES FACEBOOK MAKE FROM CHARGING CHILLED -- FROM TARGETING CHILDREN? >> I DON'T KNOW THAT. >> CHILDREN ARE NOT COMMODITIES, THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN GIVEN SPECIAL PROTECTIONS. THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN GIVEN THIS SPECIAL SAFETY ZONE SO THAT CHILDREN CAN GROW UP WITHOUT DEAN PRAYED UPON BY MARKETERS. WHEN I WAS A BOY, THE SALESMAN WOULD KNOCK ON THE FRONT DOOR MY MOTHER WOULD SAY TELL THEM I AM NOT HOME.
03:19:49
THAT MAN IS NOT GETTING INTO OUR LIVING ROOM. I WOULD SAY TO MY MOTHER, BUT YOU ARE HOME, NOT TO HIM. WELL, WE NEED PARENTS TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY NO ONE'S HOME FOR YOU AND YOUR COMPANY AND YOUR ATTEMPTS TO PREY UPON CHILDREN. WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE RESPOND TO THE CHALLENGE, THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN. >> THANK YOU SENATOR MARKEY AND MY THANKS TO SENATOR MARKEY FOR HIS LEADERSHIP OVER MANY YEARS ON PROTECTING CHILDREN.
03:20:23
AS YOU HEARD, HE WAS A CHAMPION IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES BEFORE COMING HERE AND WELL BEFORE I WAS IN THE SENATE BUT AROUND THE TIME I WAS ELECTED ATTORNEY GENERAL. I HAVE BEEN PLEASED AND HONORED TO WORK WITH HIM ON LEGISLATION GOING FORWARD AND I JOIN HIM AND THANKING YOU. I JUST HAVE A FEW CONCLUDING QUESTIONS AND I SEEM TO BE THE LAST ONE LEFT STANDING HERE. THE GOOD NEWS IS, I DON'T THINK WE WILL HAVE OTHERS. AS YOU MAY KNOW, YOU DO KNOW, MY
03:20:59
OFFICE CREATED IN INSTAGRAM USER IDENTIFIED AS A 13-YEAR-OLD GIRL. SHE FOLLOWED A FEW EASILY IDENTIFIABLE ACCOUNTS ON WEIGHT LOSS, DIETING, EATING DISORDERS AND SHE WAS DELUGED WITHIN A DAY OF CONTENT PUT TO HER BY ALGORITHMS THAT IN EFFECT PROMOTED SELF INJURY AND EATING DISORDERS. ARE YOU SURPRISED BY THAT FACT? MS. HAUGEN: I AM NOT SURPRISED.
03:21:37
FACEBOOK HAS INTERNAL RESEARCH WHERE THEY HAVE DONE MORE GENTLE VERSIONS OF THAT EXPERIMENT WITH A STARTED FROM THINGS LIKE INTEREST IN HEALTHY RECIPES. NOT EVEN EXTREME DIETING. BECAUSE OF THE APPLICATION OF INTEREST, THAT IMAGINARY USER WAS PUSHED FOR THAT ACCOUNT WAS PUSHED TOWARD EXTREME DIETING AND PRO-ANOREXIA CONTENT RAPIDLY. >>>> AND THAT'S THE ALGORITHM? MS. HAUGEN: THAT'S THE ALGORITHM. >> IT CAN BE CHANGED? MS. HAUGEN: INTEREST USED TO BE IN APPLICATION BASED ON
03:22:15
FOLLOWING CERTAIN PEOPLE AND THEY ARE PUT INTO YOUR FEET. OVER TIME, MORE HEAVILY BASED ON RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE ALGORITHM WOULD FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU ARE INTERESTED IN. YOU CAN HAVE WONDERFUL EXPERIENCES BASED ON HUMAN INTERACTION. THESE ARE HUMANSCALE TECHNOLOGIES, NOT COMPUTERS FOCUSING ON WHAT WE FOCUS ON. >> SO THE AVERAGE PARENT WORRIED ABOUT THEIR DAUGHTER OR SON BEING DELUGED WITH THESE KINDS OF CONTENT WOULD WANT THAT KIND
03:22:51
OF ALGORITHM CHANGED I WOULD THINK AND WOULD WELCOME THE OVERSIGHT YOU RECOMMEND. MS. HAUGEN: I BELIEVE PARENTS DESERVE MORE OPTIONS AND MORE CHOICES. >> ABOUT 15 MINUTES AGO, WE RECEIVED A MESSAGE FROM SOMEONE IN CONNECTICUT AND I WILL READ IT TO YOU. IT'S FOR MY DAD. I AM IN TEARS RIGHT NOW WATCHING YOUR INTERACTION WITH FRANCIS
03:23:31
HAUGEN. MY 15-YEAR-OLD LOVED HER BODY AT 15 AND WAS ON INSTAGRAM CONSTANTLY AND MAY BE POSTING TOO MUCH AND SUDDENLY SHE STARTED HATING HER BODY, HER BODY HAD JUST MURPHY A AND IS NOW IN ANOREXIA AND SHE WAS IN DEEP TROUBLE BEFORE WE FOUND HELP STOP I FEAR SHE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME. I AM BROKENHEARTED. I THINK PEOPLE TEND TO LOSE SIGHT OF THE REAL-WORLD WORLD IMPACT DOWN HERE. I THINK THAT'S THE REASON.
03:24:09
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO INVITE YOU, IF YOU HAVE ANY WORDS TO THOSE OTHER EMPLOYEES AT BIG TECH, THE WORKERS WHO MAY BE TROUBLED BY THE MS. CONTACTOR UNETHICAL CONDUCT THAT THEY SEE, WHAT YOU WOULD TELL THEM. MS. HAUGEN: WE LIVE IN A PATTERN WE HAVE SEEN THROUGHOUT TIME WITH REGARD TO TECHNOLOGIES. HUMANS ARE CRAFTY PEOPLE AND WE FIND INTERESTING SOLUTIONS AND WE OFTEN DEVELOP THINGS ON A
03:24:42
LARGER SCALE THAN WE KNOW REALLY HOW TO HANDLE. WHAT WE HAVE DONE THE PAST WHEN WE SEE THIS HAPPEN IS WE TAKE A STEP BACK AND WE FIND INSTITUTIONS AND FRAMEWORKS FOR DOING THESE THINGS IN A SAFEWAY. WE LIVE IN A MOMENT WHERE WHISTLEBLOWERS ARE IMPORTANT BECAUSE THESE TECHNOLOGICAL SYSTEMS ARE WALLED OFF AND ARE VERY COMPLICATED, THERE ARE THINGS YOU NEED TO BE A SPECIALIST TO UNDERSTAND THE CONCERT TO SOLVE THE FACT -- UNDERSTAND THE CONSEQUENCES OF STEP. THE FACT THAT WE HAVE HAD THESE
03:25:17
DISCUSSIONS, IS IT ABOUT CENSORSHIP OR SAFETY IN THE FACT THAT WE ARE BEING ASKED THESE CHOICES IS AN ILLUSTRATION OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE REAL SOLUTIONS ARE HIDDEN INSIDE OF COMPANIES. WE NEED MORE TECH EMPLOYEES TO COME FORWARD ARE LEGITIMATE CHANNELS LIKE THE SEC -- THE FCC OR CONGRESS TO MAKE SURE PUBLIC HAS THE INFORMATION THEY NEED IN ORDER TO HAVE TECHNOLOGIES HAVE A HUMAN CENTER, NOT COMPUTER CENTERED. >> THANK YOU, ON THAT NOTE, WE WILL CONCLUDE. THANK YOU FOR IN EXTRAORDINARY TESTIMONY.
03:25:53
I THINK ANYBODY WATCHING WOULD BE IMPRESSED AND MUCH BETTER INFORMED. YOU HAVE DONE AMERICA REAL PUBLIC SERVICE, I THANK YOU. THE RECORD WILL REMAIN OPEN FOR A WEEK -- FOR TWO WEEKS AND ANY SENATORS WHO WANT TO SUBMIT ACTIONS OF RECORD SHOULD DO SO BY OCTOBER 19.THIS HEARING IS ADJOURNED. [CAPTIONS COPYRIGHT NATIONAL CABLE SATELLITE CORP. 2021] [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY. VISIT NCICAP.ORG]

DOWNLOAD SUBTITLES: