Ann Shulgin Q&A Session: "Understanding the Shadow"

Ann Shulgin Q&A Session: "Understanding the Shadow"

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00:04
first thing happened when I woke up this morning was I could hear a faint faint sounds a voice from the radio that I hadn't really turned down and I the first thought I had was oh my god I know what the first question is going to be but to save us all
00:34
wait I'll give it instead how how and in what way would you associate the Boston mess with the shadow and the only thing I could come up with first thing in the morning was oh my god I don't know but then the next thought I had was well I have to start at the beginning what do I know about the shadow so before or by
01:09
the way you can interrupt with questions any time please you don't have to wait until I'm through with my notes you can ask anything you want I made yeah oh thank you Scott did you did you hear anything okay anyway hissed out the beginning the the shadow is as you probably most of you
01:56
know is that part of us which we have been told is unacceptable unlovable hard not worthy etc etc the shadow in itself is neither good nor bad whether it is good or bad it's in the eyes or opinion of the person who has it and the
02:32
authority figures around him the shadow gains and holds power while it stays in the dark while it while it stays repressed when it is repressed it can choose its own time a to erupt for instance when we're talking about adults here at this point when the grown-up is
03:05
drunk or under the influence of drugs or has loosened himself in some way but then at times like that the shadow can show his muscle and the human being does or says things nobody expected him to or things are a rude aggressive hostile and then the shadow goes back and stays
03:40
quiet for a while the the to become a whole person spiritually we have to make the shadow and its contents conscious and that is also totally necessary if we are going to become what I think you called individuated human beings there is no
04:22
way that we can become whole humans without confronting and then getting to know and then finally align ourselves with our shadow now there are about basically two ways of doing this one is to undergo a process done with a guide
04:57
in this day and age it's usually a therapist it's usually a therapist who has undergone the process herself in my opinion it has to be a therapist who has undergone the process herself no one else should try to do this work with with a patient the other way of doing it
05:30
is bit by bit as we go through life it's a funny thing but the part of us that wants to become whole has ways of sort of tricking us into seeing understanding that there's something there we we don't understand it'll happen in dreams especially in
06:05
what you're called big dreams this something will show itself and we're left wondering what was that I think all of us have stories that illustrate an emergence of a shadow contents again keep in mind that the shadow is what has been repressed not what is evil so very
06:41
often what has been repressed by by parents or the authorities of some people who have authority in our lives might be considered by other people to be creative and and even good there are many examples of this but basically yeah
07:18
did you give an example in your own practice where you might have encountered someone shadow well most post of the encountering of a shadow in the patient that I experienced was in doing actual shadow work so it I I don't think I I've encountered it unexpectedly this is this is because I
07:51
was dealing with a rather unusual situation I was working with a hypnotherapist with whom I had actually done shadow work without knowing what it was I think I think I told the story and in second book tikal but she she asked me after we've done our work to come down to her place and see certain patients of
08:26
hers who had graduated you might say from their presenting problem whatever it was and they had been working with her for at least a year and in her opinion there there was a lot further they could go and they themselves had told her that they felt there was something more they that they wanted to develop and they weren't quite sure what it was and in several of these cases
09:02
they gave examples that were recognizable and as eruptions of the shadow you know the most obvious with most people is something like what happened when I got drunk so my my encounter with those shadow monsters because that's the way they may appear to patient was in doing the shadow work
09:36
we have to remember that I was a not a trained therapist this was in the early days of MDMA and 2cb and I was my friend the hypnotherapist and I were developing our own way of using MDMA in particular and a 2cb also in therapy and so
10:12
with you she had two long couches and I call her Ruth in the books would sit at one end of the couch and I would be in the middle over the other end and and the patient would be on the other couch remember they they already knew how to put themselves in the trance State and we would use either MDMA or a 2cb it it
10:45
would depend upon the patient if they were familiar with MDMA it was used more as an opening sort of to relax them into it and to to focus the concentration I take pills for arthritis which make me very dry mouth so so we would the patient would go into a into the trance state and then Ruth
11:24
would lead them usually it was the stairway you know the upper part of the house was the conscious part and the stairway and was a long one which very gradually took the patient or client down as many floors as it took to reach the basement and in the basement was the monster the shadow monster was always an
11:56
animal when when it erupted in my own life many years earlier than that it was a big cat and there are many big cats there were also wolves several large apes and Ruth to my great chagrin had the privilege of a doing shadow work with a patient somewhere else in the
12:30
country where I could be there and she ran into first and only octopus never serious really when these things go as they should of course then you have eight arms around you lovingly instead of just two that was quite an experience the difference between what the yogi ins do and what we developed I understand that
13:05
what the union's do is that they have the patient see and acknowledge the monster the Beast and then they go back upstairs and start understanding the process of understanding how it got there why it was the way it was at cetera I I have never I I don't remember the beast ever
13:35
saying anything the Beast is for one thing it is a it hates and fears this process it says something in his head try to avoid or its life yeah it can be exactly like possession I should go back to perhaps one of the most important points and that is no matter how much preparation you have as a patient or client for for
14:12
this confrontation it is I believe one of the most terrifying experiences that a human being can anticipate it's real horror and terror because what you're about to do is get up close and personal with some a part of you that you
14:43
actually believe is the real and only truth about who you are and what you are and the Beast itself that part of you believes that it is the real you so to actually go down there and look at it when you've spent your whole life trying not to not to be aware of it trying to
15:17
deny its existence this is all the unlovable unacceptable dreadful thing that you basically are and no matter how often the therapist tells you know this has been a part of you but it is not the whole and you discover that when we get through despite that that's not what the patient
15:48
believes so it takes immense courage to do this and that is one of the reasons why only a therapist who has gone through it has the right to to guide somebody through it the the therapist must be able to say something from from personal experience
16:19
for the patient to be able to believe that the she really means it and so it has to be part of the the therapists therapist experience what we did which is different from the Jungian is we went one step further we didn't have the patient stand there and acknowledge and take in the sight of the animal or beast which is always large we
16:52
had him step into it and turn around and look out its eyes the first thing that happens is that all fear vanishes completely there is no fear left there is only power because that's what has built up in this beast a pure power and at that point he is free to step out if
17:24
he wishes or stay there a few minutes if he wishes but he has accomplished what he came to do and as far as what happens afterwards well it's sort of like you know childbirth you you have to have some rest and you have a lot to think about but I have
17:54
never heard of a patient who's gone through this the way it should be done who did not improve and come much closer to wholeness but you do have to be aware of the fact that all throughout your life you need to double check yourself you need to take a look at your your animal your what is now not an animal
18:28
but an ally it still has a presence a sort of it is still an entity and as I wrote in the book it will never have good table manners but it is it's a strong strong friend and it's on your side so basically that is that's what happens if you do it right if you do if
18:58
you do it without the aid of a therapist it takes a long I don't know how long it takes it depends on how how much help you get from books from your own dreams I mean there is that part of us that wants desperately to be a whole human being and it will keep pushing not in everybody but for those who who are on a
19:32
spiritual path of any kind yes the spirit does a push for wholeness are there any other questions oh yes there are a second I'm not seeing that yeah the danger of what I think you saying being eat yeah well being I don't
20:05
I'm identifying with it holy oh you been getting stuck in it yes there's a very I've never personally known of a client that did but there's a very famous person who who did get stuck in it because he chose to and I tell his historian give his name only because he never made a secret of it himself
20:41
you probably most have you seen the movie alien the original alien and you're aware of the name Gieger GI GE who created the alien and all everything on that planet well it might not be too much of a surprise to you to hear that he he did I believe he worked with thirst and broth and he he did not
21:14
according to stand he did not complete the job the circumstances made it hard for him to to get back but he decided he liked where he was his shadow is a perfectly comfortable place for him and if you have seen any of the books that of Gikas paintings and sketches you could see exactly what happened he
21:45
became very very rich and very successful and as far as I know it was very happy but he took over his shadow and decided that was the aspect of himself that you preferred so that's the only piece I actually know of I'm sure there are others in fact it's obvious that there are others hands up
22:16
yeah how do you find someone to do this sort of work okay well if you're going to do it with with psychedelics be very had but I I would I would really suggest that you don't try to do it with psychedelics it's not necessary hypnosis hypnotic trance is fully as able as as
22:47
any psychedelic to take you where you need to go that that's my answer to people who say where can I find somebody who therapists who work with me with MDMA you're not at least not easily and not without trying for many years the work is illegal and it is done by many many people underground and that's the
23:20
only way they can keep their their license and stay out of jail this is not a small or light matter but hypnosis will take you to the same place and there are many good hypnotherapist I was told by Ruth who's prejudiced and I believe it still that the best training is Erik Erik Sounion and although she
23:53
was a absolutely one of the most difficult people I've ever known in my life she was also a superb therapist yesterday after over of a long cold so I would say find a good ericksonian of the trained Erickson trained hypnotherapist but find one that you like and trust
24:34
not all ericksonian trained therapist the right one for you but you have to try a few of them out so so you can actually do it anytime you want water staff Erikson trained or Erik Sonya I'm misusing the name I guess it's Erickson trained right somebody's nodding but what oh yeah oh
25:10
I'm sorry yes as a matter of fact and I thought for years it was the other Erickson yeah and I ordered two books by the other Erickson and thought oh my god but I got it straightened out Milton is the right one what's the next I'm not ignoring any of you there oh I'm sorry yes Tanya oh okay
25:48
yeah but it's it's a it's a creature of the psyche it's the part of us which we have been told we we mustn't have and you know a good example of what or what would happen if you let's go back in order to be a socially acceptable human being a member of the human tribe in good standing you have to be socialized
26:19
which means you have to learn that you can't drop a brick on on your baby sister just because she's getting too much attention you can't do the things that you would like to do many of which are a harmless but a lot of them a lot or not you have to learn to repress the certain instincts and certain drives and
26:50
so we have to have a shadow a good example of a little boy who was brought up with a minimal shadow was a I think that the last emperor of China I'm sure many of you saw that movie which it was forbidden to say no to the little boy because he was a he was a God as well as a human and he was totally unprepared
27:24
for the world Porcello he did not have enough of a shadow and you you can't be be in polite society if you haven't been taught these things but of course a great deal of the problem arises isn't the way certain
27:53
parents between their children they they make the mistake as all of us know of instead of saying that is not a good thing to do they say you are a bad boy for doing it and there's a world of difference so the the children who grow up into grownups who have trouble those who have been themselves rejected and
28:30
treated with anger and hostility so that they they believe they are that part of themselves makes all the difference in the world let me give you two books which I really love there are lot of books on the shadow but anything by Connie's like Connie is like so I guess as z/w EIG I believe she has written
29:03
romancing the shadow which is beautiful and anything by what the heck I believe he's I just discovered him to my to my shame Robert Johnson have I got the right yeah he writes small compact books which just opened the entire world for instance owning your own shadow understanding understanding the dark
29:32
side of the psyche Robert a Johnson and I've got this one book I was so impressed by it that I made it my gift to all all the members of my family whether they liked it or not I gave this book and said doesn't matter if you have any problems with yourself or not this is great had great read hoping that all you know anyway I am now on the verge of ordering everything else he has ever
30:05
written but Robert Johnson and Connie's white this one is owning your own shadow that's Johnson Connie swag is romancing the shadow but she has written more and Johnson has written many more you say you're safe in either hands if we filled up five minutes now I really really sorry to have known you such a
30:37
short time but it was nice you

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