Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Gaige Grosskreutz testifies | FOX6 News Milwaukee

Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Gaige Grosskreutz testifies | FOX6 News Milwaukee

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04:09
we're back and uh the appearances are as well we're back and outside the presence of the jury and appearance arrested before and ready to roll i want to put two things quickly on the record number one on friday the parties received a high definition copy of a video drone footage that we all previously had lower resolution copies of it's from a source uh identified as brandon beeman or urban unaired um urbanated something
04:47
like that and i believe there's an agreement that that's going to be added to our stipulated list of authentic videos so that we won't need a witness to lay a foundation of authenticity as to that that's correct is the correct statement okay and second of all you're honored the next witness is going to be gage grosskroyd's i believe there's an agreement among the parties that he has one prior criminal conviction all right accurate um all right let's go oh yeah i suppose i should do that
05:24
um it's monday [Laughter] starting without the reporter is a common problem would you come down please yes uh it's a common problem but i don't think i ever started without the jury please i think it's true all right good morning everyone i hope everybody had a restful and uh entertaining weekend and uh i hope that uh
07:42
bears played tonight right okay so oh you're smiling a lot dude i assume that you're a bear fan how many how many packers fans how many bear fans about a typical split for kenosha okay great well everybody enjoy the game not necessarily the outcome all right let's go the state calls gauge growth courts for the truth to help you god you may be seated could you please state your name and
08:33
spell your first and last name for the record gage g-a-i-g-e girls crates g-r-o-s-s k-r-e-u-t-z have you ever been convicted of a crime yes how many times one what city do you currently live in milwaukee and did you grow up in milwaukee for the most part yes did you have any experiences growing up that made you want to get into the medical field um many i think
09:06
i remember being a young child my grandma was employed as a registered nurse at columbia st mary's milwaukee like i said being a small child i remember her teaching me how to use a stethoscope and a blood pressure i'd say that was probably my earliest memory when i decided that i wanted to pursue a career in medicine where did you go to high school west dallas central when did you graduate 2012. and did you find opportunities to put
09:37
that early desire to go into medicine uh into practice oh yes tell us about that um i remember when i was a sophomore in high school and i was on the swim team and my swim captain had come up to me and asked if i wanted a job as a lifeguard so from there i worked for the milwaukee lifeguard corps and then from there i went to school to be an emt basic after completing that course i then
10:08
worked as a emt on a private ambulance in milwaukee can you tell us a little bit about what you had to do to complete that course so emt basic is i believe 160 maybe 180 hours essentially that comes to a couple days a week out of a out of a semester and then following that after successful completion of the coursework at the college you then take two nationally uh registered courses or tests i should say one is a cycle motor course so that's
10:41
a psychomotor course test exam um and that's essentially the hands-on technical skills and then there's a cognitive exam and it is a computerized exam where you take multiple choice questions in various fields of pre-emergency hospital care was those two classes that you described were those necessary to finish up the emt basic program correct and was there anything else you needed to do to finish up that program
11:13
um apart from submitting an application to be licensed through the state that's essentially it are you familiar with the requirements in order to become an emt in wisconsin i am what are those requirements um so just to recap finishing some sort of college coursework whether it's an emt basic or if you go on for an advanced emt or an emt paramedic so the course the coursework through the accredited college is the first thing and then following that is the uh like i said the
11:42
two uh national uh registry of emt or emergency medical technicians uh exams that you take once you complete those and pass them then you submit an application to whatever jurisdiction that you'll be working in because while you might learn you know this much you're only able to potentially do this much given local protocols and laws did you complete all of that yourself i did did you obtain a certification from the state of wisconsin to be an emt i
12:14
did and did you put that into practice i did how so um like i mentioned before i worked for a private ambulance in milwaukee for a number of years did you continue on in the field to get more advanced training or more advanced certification after that i did can you tell us about that yeah so when i was working as an emt basic i decided that i really enjoyed it and i wanted to advance my knowledge my expertise my
12:46
experiences and i went back to school to a waukesha county technical college and this is where i took the emt paramedic course can you tell us about that course yeah yes the emt paramedic course i guess a quantitative way to differentiate the two emt basic is about 180 hours of class time an ent paramedic is about 1 600 so for the specific course that i took
13:16
at waukesha county technical college i took 34 credits in a semester the way that this course was structured is you would take a morning class a morning class and an afternoon class this would go on for the entire semester these classes would be for example one of the first two courses that i took was one course specific and treating trauma and then medical emergencies so there's a difference between those two so morning class afternoon class and at the
13:48
end of two weeks in this kind of condensed really fast paced really hard-hitting course courses you and then take the exam for those and then as long as you passed with a b or higher you were then essentially able to move on to the next segment so if at any point in this program you were to fail a course so you failed your morning class halfway through but you passed your afternoon class you would have to wait for the next academic semester to to go back to re-attend
14:19
were you able to make it through that entire program i was is that true for everybody else in your class it is not what was the kind of the drop out rate if you will um from what i remember we had about 25 to 30 students i was one of maybe 10 that passed once you finished all of that coursework did you get any new license or certification i did and what was that called that is the emt paramedic certification is that from the state of
14:50
wisconsin that is do you remember approximately when you obtained that that would have been um 2014 i want to say can you help us understand the difference between an emt and a paramedic uh yes i can um the like i said a quantitative way to delineate the two is the amount of course work um a simpler way that i like to put it to people is paramedics can put new holes in people
15:21
so some of the sorry go ahead some of the things for example are administering iv medications so knowing how to start an iv um also cardio synthetic sorry cardiocentesis which is essentially a life-saving maneuver which involves extracting fluid from the heart there's also a great deal of pharmacology knowledge that needs to be known for example emts emt basics can administer six
15:52
different kinds of medications paramedics and again it depends on the jurisdiction that you're working in but nationally you're taught a little over 50 different kinds of medications and that's not just names but it's indications contraindications or when to use it when to not use it dosages which can be dependent on weights age and then there's also just the general knowledge that's known so while there are a lot more technical skills that you learn in pharmacology and things like that it's also being
16:24
able to identify and properly assess after you obtained your certification as a paramedic did you work in that field i did can you tell us about that um like i said i had been previously employed on a private ambulance as an emt basic i then continued to work on a private ambulance as an emt paramedic did you ever do any of that work here in kenosha in kenosha no banana racine i worked for erickson ambulance for a time during your time working as a paramedic with that private ambulance company what
17:00
sort of medical emergencies did you have to respond to um so ericsson ambulance does um primarily well i think almost exclusively what's called inner facility transports um so it's not like when somebody calls 9-1-1 erickson ambulance is the one to respond versus like in milwaukee there's a essentially these these calls are shared with the fire department and private ambulances so the private ambulances kind of back up the firefighters but specifically for erickson ambulance
17:32
and racine when i worked as an emt paramedic um our general patient population were elderly people um so this was i mean a range a range of emergencies anywhere from diabetic issues to potentially mental health issues there's always the the chance and or the chance of trauma say somebody falls um cardiac issues are also a big well
18:06
a more um i guess ubiquitous thing with with the geriatric uh sorry uh cardiovascular emergencies are a lot more common given the age of geriatric patients do you remember approximately how long you worked as a paramedic i'll say about a year were there ever times in which you had to deal with someone suffering from a gunshot wound yes i have what was that like it's difficult um
18:48
gunshots can be very traumatic and i mean traumatic in the sense of the physiology of what it can do to the body obviously there are you know numerous factors that go into it the size of the caliber where the person's shot how many times and when you are practicing in school it is much different from when you actually go and put your hands on somebody who is is bleeding um there's lots of blood um screaming
19:22
generally speaking there's somebody there that's frantic so then not only are you having to focus on the patient but you have to deal with the surrounding situation which can be potentially like i said a frantic family member say if it's an accident or self-inflicted but also it can be a dangerous situation to go into because generally speaking i mean you shoot people to hurt them and there's always that potential of continued on-scene violence
19:55
so it can be very hectic it definitely doesn't get easier the more you do it maybe going through the motions going through your mental checklist of things that you need to need to do but it definitely doesn't get easier watching that hearing that since you obtained your paramedic certification from the state of wisconsin have you continued your education in that field i have can you tell us about that
20:32
um i went to school to for outdoor education and naturally through that field you are finding yourself in remote areas where there is going to be some form of delayed care meaning meaning that you are unable to get to a hospital within an hour and that's commonly referred to as the golden hour specifically with trauma patients i then took a wildland firefighter course which i did complete
21:04
and then i also took what's called wilderness first responder which is the pretty um it's essentially the industry standard for people who work in the outdoor industry have you uh worked in the outdoor industry as you say i have what kind of work have you done my first job uh in the outdoor industry was working as a sea kayak guide in the apostle islands a sea kayak guide in the apostle islands is that right correct okay go ahead um and then from there
21:37
naturally through schooling and opportunities i've primarily worked with children middle school age and also from there i was a um i am an american canoe association uh sea kayaking instructor to actually teach people how to effectively see kayak a bit of context uh specifically for where i worked in the apostle islands like superior's very cold can get very windy which means very wavy so it's maybe just a little bit more intense
22:07
than maybe paddling around your lake cabin are you continuing your studies today i am and how close are you to finishing those up i have one more class that i need to complete to receive my bachelor's on outdoor education i want to turn your attention mr gross croits to the the summer of the year 2020 and we're gonna lead up to august 25th but before that um did you spend time that summer attending any protest or demonstrations
22:42
i did can you tell us about that after the death of george floyd i found myself demonstrating in milwaukee this was i want to say maybe two days after george floyd's death and i was out with a friend of mine who actually took emt basic with and we were out demonstrating um we were seeing what the scene was like i'm sorry seeing what the scene was like um we didn't make signs or anything like
23:17
that but we like i said we found ourselves down in milwaukee um and when you say you were demonstrating what exactly were you doing well i think what i was specifically doing was just being in attendance but i want to make sure we understand what you mean by demonstrating um were there people damaging property no lighting fires was there any violent clash with police no what time of day if you recall were these uh demonstrations
23:53
um that specific first one generally late morning into late afternoon so what would other folks be doing at these demonstrations people would be holding signs they would be chanting various things um driving cars down down the street yeah and you said you initially were there just kind of to see the scene
24:24
is that right yeah correct and tell us what happened after that so after walking for a few hours um kind of starting to wrap the day up and all of a sudden somebody starts yelling at medic and walking like i said with my friend who i took emt basic with and he looks at me and he says that that's you i was like oh i guess you're right and then i came over to a patient who had
24:56
tripped and fallen over a curb my guess is they just weren't paying attention got their got their feet caught up um and the patient was was all right after an assessment advised to go to the hospital following that though i noticed that there was no established or even organized sort of first aid presence at these demonstrations um and from there i was talking with my
25:31
friend who i've taken emt basic with and we decided that we were going to offer our services voluntarily and did you do that we did tell us about that experience so i had talked to some of the prominent organizers in milwaukee and we kind of laid out a game plan or you know how we were going to organize this um essentially
26:03
as medics we decided that we weren't going to be actively participating in any of the demonstrations i think there's a essentially an ethic code that if you are providing medical care you shouldn't necessarily choose a side because everybody has the right to protest or demonstrate assemble freedom of speech but also everybody has the right to do that safely so very early on we decided that we weren't going to actively participate in these demonstrations
26:35
from there my friend and i outfitted his pickup truck into a essentially a mobile first aid station in the time period that followed after that did you and your friend with this mobile first aid station provide medical assistance at these demonstrations yes we did on approximately how many occasions would you say you did that i think it's relevant for many reasons um it's establishing his background as a
27:13
paramedic uh which was came into play on this particular evening i think it also is drawing a contrast between him and the defendant uh i'll overrule the objection on the first round how many approximately how many times would you say you were out there providing medical care at these demonstrations i would say about 75 days prior to august and during that time period what sort of medical situations would you assist in
27:52
primarily it was essentially people not taking care of themselves i mean it was a hot summer people weren't hydrating people weren't eating people weren't wearing proper footwear um so i would say it was by and large very nothing sort of like medical emergencies it was very you know like i said people not taking care of themselves so like it's providing water probably food potentially bandaging spraying joints like ankles things like that you mentioned earlier that you felt sort
28:26
of an ethical obligation not to pick and choose your the people you would treat did you treat anyone who needed it no matter what their political beliefs were or what side they were on yes absolutely i want to move to the night of august 25th 2020. on that particular evening did you come here to kenosha i didn't had you been working at your normal job that day i was
28:58
do you recall approximately what time you left to come down to kenosha 7 p.m did you travel alone i did were you part of any sort of larger group or organization that was coming to kenosha that night i was not why did you personally decide to come down here that night essentially for the same reasons that i stated earlier um we were all aware of what was happening in the days following jacob lake
29:30
shooting people do have a right to demonstrate and no way advocating for property damage or anything like that but given the i think we all can agree chaotic situation of those three days following jacob lake shooting there was certainly a propensity for violence or maybe not just violence but injuries in general um and so for the same reasons that i stated earlier i
30:03
i've delivered patience to freighter down here i'm familiar with the area and um i felt that given my level of experience and knowledge that i could be of assistance to people when you came down here that night did you bring any of your own medical supplies i did what kind of supplies did you bring with you um brought a tourniquet um what's called hemostatic gauze also commonly called
30:34
quick cloth chest wound seals some gloves some saline spray how were you dressed that evening i had a black shirt with a wu-tang sign on it's a pretty famous group i had khaki shorts i had tennis shoes and also i had a blue hat with large lettering that said paramedic on the uh
31:05
i guess on the front of it were you carrying any of your equipment with you i was how were you doing that i had it in a small backpack were you armed i was tell us about that i believe in the second amendment i am i'm for people's right to to carry and bear arms and that night was no different than any
31:36
other day it's keys phone wallet gun did you have a permit to carry a concealed weapon it didn't was it in effect on august 25th 2020 it was not had it expired it had and you had not renewed it i had not when you were having this medical truck in milwaukee did you carry a gun then i did when you came down here how did you
32:06
carry your gun i had my handgun holstered in the small of my back what type of gun was it it was a gen 4 clock 27 so it is a smaller framed 40 caliber handgun was it loaded it was do you recall if there was a round in the chamber that night i don't when you came down here to kenosha that night with your equipment etc did you
32:38
specifically seek to meet out with any particular person or any group or anything along those lines no i did not so tell us what you did when you first came down here so after i arrived in kenosha i parked several blocks away this is both for safety and protection of my property i put on my equipment which is essentially my handgun and my medical supplies and then i walk towards the courthouse
33:09
from there things were already there was already confrontation between demonstrators and the police and by confrontation i mean people were throwing water bottles the police were shooting pepper balls from the top of the courthouse that you know that sort of thing then after i arrived i assessed the scene and almost immediately i came upon a person who had been somehow whether it was
33:40
direct spray or you know in a gas formation on her form who was affected by the pepper spray so immediately following that i started treating this person and then again from there i was assessing the situation primarily treating people who were affected by the tear gas also delegating to other people how to effectively treat that when you say you were delegating were these people that you knew that you were delegating responsibility to
34:15
no so tell us about the delegating process one instance that i can think of in particular um the proper way to treat well just to irrigate an eye in general regardless of what is what is causing you know an issue is you want to start from the nose and then pour out the idea behind that is that you know if you have something that's affecting this eye you pour it this way then that chemical or
34:48
whatever it is irritant can then go into the unaffected eye or unaffected eye so i had um come across a person who was not properly irrigating the eye and so that would would have been one of the forms of delegation just telling this person hey you know this is the proper way to do it whether or not they chose to listen to me that's that's their choice but again just trying to provide some some proper knowledge and treatment do you recall approximately how many people you
35:20
gave medical assistance to that night i don't know the exact number um but if you wanted me to estimate i'd say around 10. uh what was the most serious situation that you dealt with apart from myself yes as a medic treating the other folks that were out there um there was an individual a younger patient who had been shot in the crease of her left arm with what we presume to be a rubber bullet
36:00
um fired from one of the police and she had sustained a pretty pretty decent laceration i mean there was pretty good cut from it so whatever had hit her had some force behind it um so while actually treating a patient with tear gas irritant and then started to hear this young patient scream and that immediately got my attention um and would would you like me to explain that interaction you know what let's pause
36:31
there for a second i want to show the jury something um mr gross i'm going to play an excerpt of exhibit number 55 and i would like you to um when we're done i'll ask you a couple questions about it okay go ahead pause the video there for a second do you see yourself in that video i do can you help us uh identify yourself there uh i would be you can see the top of my head with the blue baseball cap and some white
38:17
lettering and a black shirt that is me okay can you tell us what was shown in that video this is me uh several several other individuals who i did not know um the patient laying on the ground and um what i later found out after i had treated the patient their father and was this the individual you mentioned who had a laceration to their elbow from a rubber bullet that is
39:06
correct do you remember where physically you were when you were providing that treatment um this would have been the just across the street of the south uh east corner of civic park okay so basically right out across the square here correct and this was on the night of august 25th correct can we go show exhibit 56 please mr grosskritz do you recognize what's up
40:01
on the screen there is exhibit number 56 i do can you identify that for us please um it appears to be a news article from the kenosha news um depicting myself and the patient uh in a still of the video that we just previously watched euron i would move exhibits 55 and 56 into evidence objection while you were out there on the night of august 25th were you also taking your own video recording of what was going on
40:39
i was can you tell us about that please you can um so essentially when there wasn't a medical emergency or somebody seeking assistance i am a aclu legal observer and i decided that the next best thing that i could do that night was just simply record was this something where you were just recording it onto your own equipment or was it being shared in any way
41:13
it was being recorded from my cell phone but it was through a facebook live stream where you broadcasting live on facebook while you were doing that i was and so that video would have recorded most of the things that you saw and places that you went uh while you were here that evening is that fair to say that it's fair to say did there come a time in which you encountered a group of folks that were armed in front of the 59th street car source location i did can you
41:48
tell us about that after the police had moved the demonstrators from the park they started to form a line which they would then advance moving the demonstrators south down sheridan road so i would say maybe 10 15 minutes after they they started clearing the park out and found myself outside of the 59th street car source as i walked up
42:23
one of the first things i noticed that there were people armed with long guns ar-15 type weapons similar to the defendants and they had been on the roof i recall like three of them i think and there were also individuals on the ground similarly dressed similarly armed on the ground i recalled for seeing initially do you remember
42:56
the first time that you observed the defendant that evening i do can you tell us about that there was an individual um who i had assumed came from the demonstration reason i assume that is because this person was coming from north traveling southbound um this individual is being supported uh by two other individuals kind of like that uh if you were to hurt your leg and you needed somebody to help you um i had observed this individual
43:28
um come closer to the car source as the defendant had been essentially offering medical aid and then that was the the first time that uh i saw the defendant do you know what happened with regard to that person who was being supported by other people and the defendants i only know what it's seen in the moment i don't know what happened to this person afterwards but what i observed was the defendant offering medical
44:00
assistance and then this individual being carried in a way onto the car source property i then heard somebody yell don't let them treat you and i turned around and i don't remember why exactly i turned around but then moments later i then turned back facing towards the car source and towards the defendant towards that individual and that individual along with the other two people supporting them
44:32
were exiting the property did you see the defendant provide any treatment to that individual i did not do you remember a time when you were at that location that car source location and you observed a dumpster out in the middle of the road i do recall that yes what do you remember about that um i didn't see how it got there but it was your pretty typical municipal dumpster you know green with the black top
45:09
i didn't see anybody actively pushing it like i said i didn't even see how it got there but it was probably about a dumpster's length from the the curb which would be in front of car source did you see anyone trying to start it on fire i did not can we please uh bring up the live stream exhibit number 57 at the 55-44 mark please
45:53
go ahead we're here [ __ ] [Laughter] [Applause] property not the streets protect your property not the streets what the [ __ ] what we just observed mr grosskrites is that part of the live stream that you recorded that evening that is and i noticed there seems to be a little bit of a lag in the in the audio to the
46:55
video is that fair to say that is fair to say okay but is that a true and correct copy of what you recorded that night apart from the one or two second delay it is so this incident here with the dumpster and whatnot um were you physically there right there a few feet away when all this was going on it was and did you observe the people that were around you at that time i did on that particular evening and again i'm going to ask you to try and go back and
47:31
put yourself in the mindset of that night when you're out there on the streets that evening had you ever heard of anyone by the name of joseph rosenbaum no had you ever met that person before never do you recall seeing joseph rosenbaum at any point that evening i do not in particular right around the time of this dumpster fire um in front of 59th street car source do you recall seeing him around that at any
48:02
point i do not do you recall hearing anyone make any threats to any of the people at the car source location that if i get you alone i'm going to kill you or anything along those lines i do not do you recall hearing anyone make any threats to any of those people at that car source location i do not you mentioned that the first time you saw the defendant was this person that was limping being supported by other people
48:40
and i know you mentioned that eventually you saw that person walking away do you remember any other observations that you made of the defendant when you were at the 59th street car source uh i do can you tell us about that um i took note like i said there were four people essentially in front of me that i could see so i took note of what they were wearing how they were armed um like i said they were all similarly armed with a similar weapon up from the defendant used
49:13
um some of them especially as you can see in the video had body armor chest rigs and then i i noted that the defendant was wearing a baseball cap green shirt jeans um and then also a rifle at that moment in time did you have any idea who he was no never met him before never were there times in which you saw him wearing gloves on his hands
49:49
i did when was that um i recall this being right around this time then i noticed the defendant also wearing blue latex gloves or maybe dark purple latex gloves that are pretty i mean very common in a healthcare setting did that strike you as unusual in the moment no it did not do you wear gloves like that when you treat people i do tell us about the process of putting them on and taking them off
50:21
um yeah so these gloves are common throughout all healthcare systems they're they're nitrile or they can be latex or non-latex these gloves are designed to essentially stop anything wet that you don't want on your hands so like blood or any sort of bodily fluids the idea is it's called body substance isolation so despite it being a very thin piece of plastic it's very good at keeping
50:53
contagions off of your hands so the idea is and also keeping in mind too that you want to have your hands clean when you're also touching somebody else especially if there's any sort of open wound you want to minimize that potential for contamination or cross-contamination the idea is that when you come up on a patient say if you're able to wash your hands some sort of sanitize you know sanitizer something along those lines
51:24
um and then prior to administering aid or treatment to a patient and then put these gloves on um and then after treating your patient there is a specific way to remove your gloves that let's say if there was some sort of fluid or contagion on the gloves there's a proper way to remove them to where you wouldn't get your hands dirty afterwards with whatever it might be on the glove so when you're working as an emt or a
51:53
paramedic do you typically keep one set of gloves on your hands constantly throughout your shift never why not um essentially for the reasons that i just stated i mean if you treat essentially for the reasons that i just previously stated um if you if you treat one patient um and then on an ambulance shift a 24 hour shift 48 hour shift you about you know one call every hour and a half that's a
52:26
lot of patience that you can see doesn't i mean that doesn't make sense that's just not one proper hygiene too it's not proper protocol it would do be detrimental to your health every subsequent patient's health and not only from touching or having contact with the patient themselves but also everything else that you touch we all know with covid how easily things can spread you're touching doorknobs your face pens pencils equipment etc
53:02
on this particular evening after you were at the 59th car street car source do you recall where you went after that i do so from the car source location here i started walking southbound down sheridan did you wind up at the ultimate gas station at the intersection of 60th and sheridan i did do you recall what if anything you did there nothing different than i had previously been doing so like i explained when there was
53:34
no patient essentially to treat then i started recording again an aclu legal observer i thought that was the best way that night that i could provide another aspect or another perspective of an unbiased account video doesn't lie yes so when you were leaving 59th street heading down to the ultimate gas station were you still wearing your hat with paramedic written on it i was did you have anyone come up to you at that particular time and
54:08
request any sort of medical assistance no nobody did did there come a time in which you heard gunshots yes can you tell us about that i was slightly south of ultimate gas station to be very specific i think it's raised barber shop which is either the adjacent building or one they're over while i was recording
54:42
and i had heard a series of gunshots what i determined to be a few blocks south of where i was what if anything did you do um i first sat and listened and then had there were people watching my live stream so i had been narrating essentially what i was seeing what i was hearing um i'd heard these gunshots and had commented on them
55:16
and then after seeing and hearing people running well i should say seeing people running northbound and then hearing people yelling medic i started running southbound towards what i presumed at the time to be the origin of the of the gunshots do you recall how far south you ran there's a map up on the wall behind you if that's helpful from my location i couldn't have gotten more than a block
55:56
um so i uh in reference to this map um when i first heard the gunshots i would have been right about here and then i traveled southbound and then never made it any more south than about here the first place just for the record i'm going to try and uh put that in words actually sorry go ahead correction i started here and i never made it more south and about here okay so you indicate you started at i think
56:30
it's uh labeled on the map there on the east side of sheridan has boost mobile and check and go is that right correct can you indicate there's a raised barber shop there also i believe so yes and then from there you ran south past 61st street and you indicated you were somewhere in the middle of uh the block between 61st and 62nd would that be accurate that's accurate and what happened when you got down to that location i had observed people running northbound
57:05
up sheridan and again hearing people yelling for a medic but then also i started to hear people yelling that somebody had been shot so then that confirmed my my assumption that somebody did in fact get shot it was there that uh while i was live streaming i um i met or i had contact with with the defendant can we please play exhibit uh 57 limes live stream
57:41
starting at the one hour 17 minute and 10 second mark like that sounded like gunshots that sounds like multiple gunshots people are scattering now this is southbound on sheridan this is i was just at 60th looks like they even set up a recliner oh 110 bro yeah dude [Music]
58:34
[Applause] hey [Music] this is the video you recorded correct correct and uh you have told us that you started running from a little bit south of 60th that gas station down south sheridan is that right that is right were you recording with your phone i was were you holding your phone in your hand while you were running i was okay please continue can you identify that individual on the
59:45
screen that is the defendant can we rewind 10 seconds and play that again please can you tell us i'm gonna ask you two separate questions first of all going back into that moment that interaction you just had with the defendant what did you think at the time he said to you at the time i thought that he the defendant had said i'm working with the police i didn't do anything now that you've had a chance to review
01:00:37
the video do you know what he actually says yes what is that after watching the video he said i'm going to the police and did he say anything else i didn't do anything is what i make out from it's hard to hear from the muffling but that's what i make out of it i want you to try and put yourself back in the frame of that evening when you heard him say something to the effect of
01:01:08
was it i'm working with the police is that right correct what was your reaction to that i found it odd and um very noteworthy previously in the night an individual i had recorded mr bulch had described some sort of plan with the police that they were going to essentially push demonstrators south down sheridan
01:01:55
and then pass the past the car source lot and then from there we're going to essentially retreat or back up that line and mr bulge had explained that there was some sort of understanding some sort of plan to whatever extent that is but that the police were going to push protesters down past the car source and he said that then the police told him that it was up to the militia members as they refer to
01:02:29
themselves to deal with them when you heard the defendant say what you thought was i'm working with the police did that bring back that other knowledge what mr balch had said yes can we play the video forward just a few more seconds and then i'm going to pause again who's shot hey stop [Laughter] it him to me mr grosskroitz that you
01:03:06
ran along or jogged along the defendant for a moment when you had that little interaction is that fair to say it is and then it looks like you kind of let him continue and you turn back south again is that fair to say but it's fair to say yes why did you do that so you hear me ask the question who's shot who is shot at that moment the only thing i was concerned about was finding this person who had been shot or presumably had been shot um
01:03:37
given that i was still north of where i thought the shots had come from instinctually i turned you know did a 180 facing northbound and turned southbound because i was concerned for whoever might be potentially injured it appears from the video though that you don't go very far before you turn and head back after the defendant would that be fair to say that it's fair to say what changed i'd seen a number of people
01:04:10
running um northbound in the same direction as the defendant um i had started hearing people saying he just shot that guy he just shot somebody um so then you turn around and head back north after the defendant i won't say after the defendant um why did you turn around and head back north after you heard these people say these things with what mr bulge had said previously essentially the way that these
01:04:48
self-proclaimed militia members were conducting themselves the gunshots people yelling for a medic my interaction with the defendant or my interaction with the defendant and really the lack of information that i had gotten from him and specifically what i had thought i had heard then coupled with this group of people running northbound i had essentially made an inference or an
01:05:20
assumption that there could be potential for somebody getting injured and anytime you bring a firearm into that equation the stakes are much higher for both serious injury and death based on all the factors that you just outlined for us did you feel like your services might as a medic might be more needed in the direction the defendant was headed
01:05:52
correct what did you do after that after i had turned around and started running in the same direction as the defendant again this this i wouldn't say that there was more people joining but i more people were than pointing out the defendant saying that he had just shot somebody that he's trying to get away get him things of that nature and then so again further inferencing from the things i heard and experienced witnessed earlier in the night i
01:06:31
thought that the defendant was an active shooter and like i had mentioned earlier anytime you add a firearm into the equation or like i said the stakes are so much higher for somebody potentially being seriously injured or being being killed can we please um pull up exhibit number five exhibit five this is the bg on the scene video
01:07:28
let's go ahead and play that i'll be pausing here in this in a little bit we just saw you come running into the screen from the right you're just behind that figure in the white shirt before this moment had you drawn your firearm no where was it um like i mentioned at the beginning i keep my pistol uh holstered uh in the small of my back but don't you have it in your hand at
01:08:23
this point i can't see okay can't see from this video did there come a time when you were running that you did pull your gun out yes why again in the moment uh i i thought that the defendant was an active shooter having been not too far behind like you mentioned i'm just about to come into the frame here i had
01:08:57
heard several more gunshots and again making inferences the defendant was the only one with a large caliber rifle i'd seen an individual jump over the defendant and then the defendant heard two shots and then from there i saw another individual used to skateboard to hit the defendant or hold the defendant either way the individual had made contact with the
01:09:31
defendant with his skateboard and then from there i had another shot and then as you can see it is still an individual phone yeah okay i want to back up for a second mr grosskroitz because we have other video that shows you pulling your gun out before those shots are fired so you do you remember specifically were you intending when you pulled your gun out were you intending to use it
01:10:07
if i had to um i didn't draw my firearm with a express intent of using it but also being ready if i had to use it let's uh continue the video for a little bit and i'm going to pause here pause right there uh we've already seen this video there's an individual on the left uh who is uh had been shot at twice by the defendant
01:10:43
then the defendant is there on the ground and there's another individual between the defendant and you anthony huber who has been shot in the chest at this point and that individual to the right of mr huber that's sort of crouched over that's you correct correct did you witness the defendant fire two shots at that man on the left i didn't did you witness him fire a shot into mr huber's chest i didn't
01:11:16
so when you come upon the defendant at this point do you recall what you were holding in your hands i do what were you holding in my right hand i had my glock pistol and my left hand i had my cell phone what was going through your mind at this particular moment that i was going to die let's continue the video for just a second please pause there's a time in this video when you appear to hold your hands up do you know
01:12:04
about that do you recall that you do did you do that after anthony huber was shot you can see in the video i'm not too far behind him and the defendant had after murdering anthony huber the objection of sustained that whether the death of anthony huber was caused by murder or not is for you jurors to decide and not for the witness so please keep that in mind that people when they're in the court and
01:12:40
they're testifying uh they can be affected by their emotions sometimes for their jobs and and they will for someone who comes into a physician for example with a gunshot wound may be identified as a victim and that's the language that they speak in the hospital because the person comes in with a gunshot wound here in the court where the issue is yet to be determined whether someone's a victim or not and it's to be based on the evidence presented in court as a decision to be made by you jurors not by
01:13:11
a witness not by the judge not by the prosecutor or the defense attorney so uh i'm going to ask you to strike the comment which was this witness's view of the subject and because it carries no weight it's for you folks to decide any question about that okay thanks go ahead so you had just seen mr huber get shot correct and so what was going on in your mind i was very close to the defendant um
01:13:44
and i i thought there was a high likelihood that i would be shot myself can we back up and play 10 seconds uh go back 10 seconds please please continue plus at this point in the video is the defendant pointing his ar-15 at you i see this can you have your hands raised in the air at this point i do continue the video please
01:14:32
plus did you see the defendant do anything with his gun after you put your hands up i did what did you see him do um it's a an action that's typically referred to as re-racking a firearm after the defendant had pointed his rifle at me and put my hands up and then the defendant like i said did this motion it's called
01:15:12
re-racking and that's essentially where you take the the the slide which on a air 15 like that would be on the top and you pull back pull back and what that does is depending on if there was already a already a bullet or a round in the chamber which would mean it would be ready to fire because you can put in a magazine which where the bullets are held and the
01:15:42
firearm won't be able to fire but as soon as you then pull the slide back like on a pistol or an ar-15 on the top that then either loads the rifle or the firearm for it to be ready to fire or if there was already around previously in the chamber that then ejects that round or casing if that round had been spent and then reloads the next bullet into the chamber or the barrel
01:16:16
so after you raised your hands like this you saw the defendant re-rack the weapon correct what did you think was going to happen in my experiences and in my inference in that moment for the defendant had pointed his weapon at me and i had put my hands in the air re-racking the weapon in my mind meant that the defendant pulled the trigger while my hands were in the air but the gun didn't fire
01:16:55
so then by re-racking the weapon i inferred that the defendant wasn't accepting my surrender did you feel that he was going to point the gun and shoot at you again yes what did you do then so after the defendant had re-wrecked his weapon with the rifle still aimed at me in that moment i felt that i i had to do something to try and prevent myself from being
01:17:36
being killed or being shot or killed and so i decided that the best course of action would be to close the distance between the defendant and i and then you know from there i i don't know i mean if try and win it anthony had just tried wrestling the gun detaining the defendants i i i don't know because i never had an opportunity um i do know
01:18:15
though i was never trying to kill the defendant that was never never something that i was trying to do in that moment i was trying to preserve my own life but doing so while also taking the life of another is not something that i'm capable or comfortable in doing that goes against almost a lifelong ethical code that i've lived by in in regards to in regards to medicine
01:18:50
can we back the video up 10 seconds please go ahead mr grosskroitz after seeing the defendant shoot it one person at close range twice shoot at mr huber in the chest once and having already been told by others in the crowd that he'd previously already shot someone else and having him point the gun at you and you're holding your own pistol in your hand why didn't you take your own gun
01:19:58
and shoot the defendant first like i said that's not the kind of person that i am it's not why i was out there that's not why i was out there for 75 days prior to that why i spent up until that point spent my time my money my education providing care for people that's not it's not who i am and definitely not somebody that i would want to become and in that moment i
01:20:40
thought it would i tried to attempt a anonymous way to and that interaction when the defendant shot you where were you hit i was hit in my right bicep what kind of damage did that do i effectively lost a large majority of my right bicep can we please play exhibit 58.
01:21:53
before we do this i do want to let everyone know that this is going to be a very graphic exhibit what does exhibit 58 show myself after um being shot by the defendant are you still holding your glock in this picture i am had you fired your glock at all that night at any point no can we please show exhibit number 59 can you describe what this picture shows
01:23:00
mr grossbrite this is me probably 30 seconds after i was shot by the defendant uh you see who i believe to be mr lukowski on the right of the screen uh me in the center with the blue paramedic hat right above my hat is mr bulch i believe and then to the left of me unfortunately i don't know the two individuals who you can't see their faces are but then um that is a
01:23:35
person i came to know as uh cj halliburton who was also live streaming that night and him myself and uh mr lukowski are um mr halliburton is applying uh a tourniquet to my right by a set ball uh mr kurkowski and myself are trying to instruct mr halliburton on the use and application of the tourniquet can we please play exhibit 60.
01:24:38
hey [Laughter] hey [Applause] we're coming out to you [Laughter] your honor i would move exhibits 58 59 and 60 into evidence objection receive would this be a good time for a break your honor yes please don't talk about the case during the break read watch let's know in the count of the trial
01:25:47
uh we'll see you in a little bit you may continue we need the jury oh what is it today what is it today can i just ask for a quick judge before we bring them down um do you have any idea what our lunch period's gonna look like uh it's warm food so it's going to be whenever it arrives okay it's supposed to come around noon but the two times we've had warm food before they've all come quite early so let's hope for the best could we could ask we have a 12-1 break today that there's some additional issues that i made you aware of earlier that may
01:46:37
require some extra time i will as much as i can i will accommodate that but as i say if the food comes warm i'm not going to make the jurors wait um for more than 10 or 15 minutes max okay so you know what yeah okay thank you hello could you come down please mr grosskroyd's the last video we watched uh had some uh police individuals with their armored vehicles and they appeared to be escorting you away would that be fair to
01:48:55
say that it's fair to say yes what happened after that um after the police officers that are responded in the bearcat or that armored personnel carrier they assisted me getting into the back of it the inside from what i remember in his design there's two benches on either side with a pretty narrow walkway from here i had officers on either side of me
01:49:25
i had been seated on the floor in between the two bench seats and then from there i remember having a conversation with what i'm going to assume was the medic on that i don't know if that was a swat team or what the organization of that unit was but it appeared to me that whoever i was having this interaction with this conversation with was the medic for lack of a more specific term
01:49:56
from there from what i remember this swat medic was attempting to start an iv on me we then um had a conversation regarding whether or not uh well let me back that up while this medic was trying to start an iv on me i had begun asking him to apply another tourniquet because my arm was still bleeding so as far as medical practices can go if
01:50:29
the whatever wound is still bleeding with a single tourniquet the idea is you want this thing to be very very tight to stop all blood flow the idea is life over limb but you can apply another tourniquet or an additional one to assist in stopping the bleeding and then from there um we arrived at the hospital and the uh swat members police officers opened the
01:51:01
back of the door or the back of the back door of the bearcat a few of them got out first and essentially provided a perimeter um and then another one or two officers um helped me get up from socially clarified was sitting down in between the two benches one officer would help me up and then from there i i walked myself into the emergency room
01:51:34
when you say you were at the hospital is that kmh freighter south down here on just off of sheridan that is correct yes and what sort of medical treatment did you receive either at that hospital or at subsequent facilities um upon arriving at the first hospital in the emergency room the tourniquets were left in place once you put those on you want to be very sure before you take them off there's issues with blood clots and
01:52:06
that sort of thing from there i remember having my vitals taken so that includes like pulse blood pressure um ekgs which is uh heart rhythms the pretty general stuff when anybody goes to the hospital but then specific to my injury they they being the hospital staff the er doctor who had been working that shift
01:52:36
determined that they were not able to provide adequate treatment for me so for a little bit of clarification um hospitals at least at least in wisconsin are uh on a tier system why don't you ask another question sure so at the first hospital kmh they determined they needed to send you someplace else is that fair to say yes where did you go from there um i don't recall the name of the hospital
01:53:13
i do know that i was transported by an ambulance to an additional hospital i remember the ambulance ride only being about five minutes and then at that hospital did they treat you or did you have to go someplace else after that originally i was supposed to be treated at that hospital but given the severity of my injury um it was determined that i was going to be transported by flight for life to freighter in milwaukee and once you got up to fright to freighter milwaukee
01:53:45
did you have to go undergo any surgical procedures or anything i did can you tell us about that yes when i first arrived uh to froedtert in milwaukee i was brought into the trauma room um essentially from there i uh i was stripped naked getting prepped for surgery um and that surgery from my understanding is uh the first one is what's called a debridement and essentially what that is is it's a very
01:54:15
deep cleaning of a wound um to stave off infection essentially it's scraping away the dead tissue now we've heard other testimony that the you're when you were shot it was shortly before midnight on august 25th were you eventually taken up to afraid of milwaukee sometime overnight in the early morning yes and the surgery would that have occurred shortly after you got to that hospital
01:54:48
almost immediately is almost immediately after me getting there yes do you recall if there were any other surgical procedures done on you while you were at uh freighter that early morning um the early morning i don't believe um i had any surgeries i was in the icu a few a few rooms over from jacob lake and that like i said it's an intensive care unit so it's for serious traumatic injuries or
01:55:20
medical ailments but then from there i was moved to what would essentially be a tear down from that so it's like the long-term icu if that makes sense and then from there i had i don't recall if it was two or three but i do know i had at least two more of these uh debridement surgeries again that sort of cleans off the tissue was there eventually surgical procedures done to try and repair the damage to your arm yes when
01:55:53
was that that would have been the monday follow the following monday and have you undergone more than one of those types of procedures that specific procedure no okay overall how much treatment have you received since this shooting to try and repair the damage i would say about a week in the hospital for emergency care then from there several months of physical therapy now
01:56:40
when you got to the hospital one of the hospitals you said they they took everything off of you did you have anything with you that you had uh picked up on the street while you were out around that night yes i did what did you have um i had a spent tear gas canister i have a exhibit here which has been marked as exhibit number 61 i believe is that what the sticker says in there okay i'm going to have detective ann
01:57:11
turamian remove this item and hold it up for the jury mr grosskroitz is the detective holding up the item that you're referring to yes yes i would move exhibit 61 into evidence objection where did you find that that would have been maybe 50 feet south on sheridan from car source from that 59th street i'm sorry yes 59th street car source okay and you said it was spent meaning whatever
01:57:50
originally was there all the gas had come out is that right so it wasn't capable of doing any further damage or harm to anyone correct why did you pick it up i don't know um i i don't have an answer for that so did there come a time in which law enforcement officers came to speak to you at the hospital that's correct did they ask you to sign a release for them to obtain your medical records they did and did you in fact do so i did
01:58:43
did you also provide the officers with a uh statement about what had happened to you yes i did and did you describe to them the fact that you had been recording uh the night's events on a facebook live stream yes i did when you say a facebook live stream is that something that if someone's on facebook they could possibly see that if they wanted to that is correct did you also have a copy of that video on your
01:59:14
phone no not a physical copy where was the actual file itself in in the world if you will um when you record something on facebook live it gets stored in your profile videos photos so while i didn't have a physical copy of it on my phone i was able to access the recording via my facebook through my phone that makes sense were the police did you make them aware of the fact that there was that video
01:59:52
out there yes i did around the time that you were in the hospital that night after the shooting in the early morning hours etc did you become concerned about your own personal safety yes i did can you tell us about that after after the events of august 25th it was made known to me pretty quickly that people online and in person
02:00:37
were um this is see the rule is you can't buttress credibility unless it's attacked it has been with the detective's testimony on it there's been questioning over his cooperation level already um i'm going to overrule the objection and allow the evidence but we're working again with the hearsay rule [Music] so i'm not going to permit the evidence
02:01:51
to be considered as proof of what he may have seen or heard about what was on the internet but rather as proof of circumstances operating on his mind does that make sense so it isn't to be taken as true uh if let's for example i'm gathering you're going to suggest there was some suggestion of harm potential harm it's not being offered to prove that there was in fact fact
02:02:23
a true risk from any particular source of any harm but rather what he concluded based upon the information that he heard make sense okay thank you please continue telling us about um your concerns for your safety um so like i had just said um it'd be made aware to me that people online were
02:02:54
making threats um going above just personal opinion as well as people coming outside my place of residence family members including my mother my grandmother an aunt that i had hardly talked to um and that became that became very concerning for me uh did there come a time in which the investigating officers asked you
02:03:32
for access to everything on your cell phone through my attorney yes i did was that something that you were interested in turning over to law enforcement at the time i was i was under the impression that i was fully cooperating and so yes that is something that i was willing to do did that actually happen no that did not do you know why not at the time no i didn't i didn't know
02:04:06
did you personally ever make a decision to refuse to give over all of the contents of your cell phone to law enforcement did you personally i never personally refuse that now may i approach mr grosskroitz i have put in front of you a document which has been marked as exhibit number 68. do you recognize that document i do can you tell us what that is essentially this document that i'm looking at is an official form
02:04:55
for informed consent to disclose evidence personal personal property personal records do you know whose form that is my form well oh sorry which agency or or or entity created that form if you know it is marked by um the kenosha police department and the kenosha county district attorney and is this a form that was presented to
02:05:25
you by a law enforcement officer so that they could get access to your medical records yes did you sign that form yes i did what day did you sign it august 26th 2020. i'd move exhibit 68 into evidence objective no receipt after everything that you've been through mr gross croits do you still have any physical issues with your arm
02:06:00
yes can you tell us about that apart from the obvious loss of tissue muscle doesn't grow back aside from that and and perhaps things being difficult and like larger heavier things being difficult uh to lift i do have a neurological deficit on my arm so i would say about here about here where the injury is essentially all of this
02:06:40
and through my thumb through my thumb i'm not able to feel i am able to move it but there is no sensation in that area and i just want to for the record demonstrate you held up your right arm you indicated that the wound was near the crux of your elbow correct and you indicated that there was no feeling in an area of the arm which if i'm characterizing this correctly and please correct me if i'm wrong it looked like you were describing the top of your forearm running from the elbow down to
02:07:11
your right thumb would that be fair to say that is correct in the area where that wound was did you have a tattoo i did is that i'm sorry i still do and what does that tattoo say um tattoo uh is a image of a pretty prominent uh symbol in the healthcare field it's the snake wrapped around the cross
02:07:44
or sorry around the uh around the staff on the top there is a banner that says do no harm meaning do n-o harm it's a banner on the top here and then on the bottom um there was a um a banner that said do no harm k-n-o-w harm yes and that's one of the mantras of the medical industry is first
02:08:16
do no harm correct one more one please all right uh cross exam so mr grosskrites on the morning of the 26th of uh august do you remember telling uh the officer who interviewed you sometime during the incident my gen 4 glock 27 that has a belt clip attached fell off my waist remember that
02:09:31
i don't recall saying that now mr gross great coming to show you what has been marked as exhibit number 69 for identification do you recognize that document i do okay and that's if i could be fair i'm not going to stand by you the whole time so i'm sorry but um is that your signature that is okay and it appears that that is um it says on 8 25 20 at 11 30 p.m at 6 300 sheridan road and then it goes on
02:10:18
a narrative version of your statement is that right correct okay and if i could toward the end of that large paragraph you'd agree it says sometime during the incident my gen 4 glock 27 that had a belt clip attached fell off my waist correct correct okay that's a lie right i wouldn't say that's a lie now you didn't take the glock out of your back here and run with it i did so it didn't fall off your waist
02:10:52
it was in your hand that's correct so you would say that's not a lie no i i would say it isn't okay and you told that to multiple officers isn't that true i don't know same exhibit sir the next sentence i told multiple officers that i dropped my firearm right correct okay now you didn't drop your firearm you were chasing mr rittenhouse with your gun right
02:11:31
you were chasing him with your gun yes no you didn't chase him down sheridan road pulling your gun chasing after him that's a lie you're saying that didn't happen i'm not saying that it didn't happen but i wasn't chasing the defendant you were running after him no no okay did you ever get charged for not telling the truth to the police about dropping your gun no do you ever tell the police in here on this statement that you actually
02:12:06
had a firearm in your hand and pointed it at the defendant no i did not you never told him you had a gun at all in terms of as you had an interaction with mr rittenhouse true that is correct and i know you said you don't know but jason lakowski testified that he picked up that firearm that he believes belonged to you and there was one in the chamber do you dispute that that could be true no i did not now you had talked about your purpose of being there that evening you're a member
02:12:44
of our wisconsin revolution are you not no i'm not you're a member of the people's revolution no i'm not have you spoken at their rallies i haven't won and during that rally uh have you made statements such as long live the revolution i have and you have no affiliation with them though affiliation yes okay there's some of those people in the crowd today aren't there yes now your first statement
02:13:23
to uh officer i think it's birch on the morning of the 26th um when he's asking you about what happened if i have this right you don't explain at all to him as to how you approached mr rittenhouse with your gun correct um can i am i i don't know i don't know i don't i don't remember specifically on that documentary
02:14:08
in fact six hours after you had been shot you had a lawyer right correct okay and you wanted to stop the interview with the police because you have a lawyer right that is correct and this is a civil lawyer right that is one thing that she represents yes okay and she's in court today right yes she is okay and i know this wasn't addressed but you have i'm going to show you exhibit 62.
02:15:07
so i'm going to show you what has been marked as exhibit number 62. this is a notice of claim is that right that is correct filed on your behalf by your lawyer right that is correct yes making a notice or telling among others the city and county of kenosha that you would like 10 million dollars true that is correct did you read this i did
02:15:47
so are you aware in this document you never mentioned that you actually possessed a firearm you know that that's correct you left that part out right that is correct judge i would move 62 is there objection no received you then had shortly thereafter i want to say in october i'm going to show you what is exhibit 63 you have now filed a lawsuit
02:16:19
in federal court is that right that is correct did you read that yes i did in that document you again failed to mention that you possessed a firearm is that right that is correct so you in these documents that you are filing of course you are leaving out the fact that you had possessed a firearm when this when you were shot right that was correct and this is so
02:16:50
to be fair this is your testimony today and how this case turns out has a has an impact on your ability to try to collect your 10 million right that's correct so if he's convicted if mr rittenhouse is convicted your chance of getting 10 million bucks is better right i'm not entirely sure how that plays out haven't had any conversations with your lawyer about that you're not going to ask about conversations with this lawyer okay fair enough
02:17:20
um you you're aware that if mr rittenhouse is convicted your chances of getting the 10 million are better how many objections has been asked and answered and i don't think he's got a basis to answer that judge i have sustained on the first round i remove 63 uh objection go receive so you were asked by attorney banger about a live stream that you had been running that evening right that is correct all right and
02:18:03
there are as far as i can tell three instances in which you see at least on that live stream you see mr rittenhouse do you agree with that yes i would okay do you have them and during that first contact which we'll see you're filming you had talked a little bit about this you were filled that's fine just wait i'm working hard all right
02:19:47
i don't think you understand what means we're not asking for evolution yet we're asking for social programs [Laughter] there's a lot of [ __ ] people from [Laughter] have y'all get pissed off at us and then wrap you guys the [ __ ] up right so the time that you saw him uh have contact with people uh who were carrying the woman you had
02:20:39
said yes okay and now to be fair you didn't think he was doing work as an emt emt properly right in in that instance no i wouldn't say that you wouldn't say that you thought he was doing it how did you think he was doing that i hadn't even observed the defendant administer anything so at that point uh you didn't see him threaten anybody right no i did not you didn't see him
02:21:10
point his gun at anyone no i did not didn't see him um raising his voice in an agitated manner or anything like that no i did not okay and i know you said that you heard people say something along the lines of don't go to them do you help her out no i do not okay now later on 31 minutes 31-0-0 later on you see him walking um
02:21:41
would that be fair great you can play it from right there looks like the boogaloo boys and good old boys rolling up two right there two right there [Laughter] you [ __ ] laughing so you hear him say anybody need a medic right correct okay now let me go ahead and medics you're good you can go home [Applause] [ __ ] stoop
02:22:38
and that's you right speaking yeah that is correct you say you can go home you [ __ ] stooge right correct okay he didn't do anything to you did he no you didn't do you didn't see him threaten anyone did you no i did not you didn't see him act aggressive toward anyone did you no i did not in fact again whether you agree that he's a medic or not he's asking people if they need help agreed that is correct okay then
02:23:12
57-28 mr banger had asked you about this one and this is um the time that mr rick house is you you videotaped him that's right thank you god [Laughter] that's why you got problems already with people so you see him pulling a dumpster out of the road right correct and you'd agree on normal situation a dumpster is not supposed to be in the road in normal situations yes
02:23:50
and you hear somebody telling him hey that's not your job you're not to do that right that is correct he doesn't react to that person at all does he no he does not he doesn't threaten that person in any way no he does not he doesn't point his firearm at that person no he does not he for to be fair he ignores that person doesn't i mean that's a fair way of putting it okay and in terms of the
02:24:23
the next time you really see him is your contact with him on sheridan road after the shooting of joseph roosevelt right that's correct okay now you were asked were you armed with a firearm and you said that you were right what do you bring and you said keys wallet whatever else and a gun right i didn't say that yeah kind of standard operating procedure for you out in the summer of 2020. uh
02:24:56
not just the summer of 2020. oh so you had carried your firearm at times previous to that that's correct and you're doing that for personal protection correct correct and you're carrying a concealed are you not that is correct it's unlawful for you to carry in concealed is that not true unlawful yeah you can't carry a concealed weapon without a ccw permit right that is correct yes you have to open here you have to have you're talking about people with their guns out you
02:25:29
have to carry it with it out if you don't have a ccw permit right that is correct and you didn't have a ccw permit did you i did have a ccw product it wasn't valid correct after the fact yes i found out that it was not valid so have you been charged for unlawfully carrying a firearm no i have not so you're carrying a gun for protection in your if i have it right back here right that's correct
02:26:01
kind of my belt period correct okay now your first contact with mr rittenhouse i think you had testified that you believed that he said to you um that he is that he was going to the police or that he was working with the police right that is correct well on your statement on the 26th which is the first statement you gave to law enforcement right correct
02:26:38
you told law enforcement i heard the guy say quote that he pulled the gun on me first unquote right that's correct so you never say to the police during your interview he told me he was working with you guys you never tell him that do you that is correct so when you make contact with mr rittenhouse tell me if this is fair and i'm not mr bringer's asked uh witnesses to do this so i'm going to ask you to do the same
02:27:11
you've probably watched videos you've probably seen all this i'm asking you to put yourself back there at that time okay you know shots are fired right correct okay and the only information that you have is mr rittenhouse saying according to you he pulled the gun on me first right correct and based on that you believe there's an active shooter
02:27:42
not solely on that but yes you don't have any information correct i had minimal information and in fact what he says to you was i'm going to the police correct that is correct and he's running toward the police isn't he that is correct okay so what you can tell me if this is right you have no idea what happened with mr rosenbaum do you
02:28:13
apart from no i just no on that day correct and he tells you he's running and he tells you whatever he tells you i'm going to the police or what you think is um he pulled the gun first and he's running away from you right he's running north on sheridan road yes correct he's running away from where you're standing true correct you at that point
02:28:46
pull a firearm out from your belt and begin to chase him true that is not true i want the picture i'm going to show you what has been marked as exhibit 35. you take a peek at that for a second that's a picture of you is that right on the right hand side with the blue cap and and you're digging into your waistband in the back are you not yes that's where your gun is located is it not that's correct okay do you see kylo
02:29:32
ren's in this picture i don't think so now okay so if we can be fair here this isn't him right no it is not and you don't believe that i don't believe so no okay and you'd agree none of these other people are him either i think that's a fair thing to say yes what do you think to the best of your ability how far that guy uh it'd be hard to tell but based on what i can see here maybe 30 feet okay so
02:30:15
you believe based on this mr rittenhouse is more than 30 feet ahead of you because he's not behind that guy right uh yes so he's 30 feet at least 30 feet ahead of you you look like at that point you're moving is that right that is correct okay so with him 30 feet ahead of you running away from you at that point you pull your firearm and begin to chase him correct no you don't begin to chase him nope no idea
02:30:47
you head in the direction that he's running yes correct but you just happen to be running in that direction it has nothing to do with kyle writtenhouse running in that direction no it does have to do with the defendant running in that direction yes okay so you are trying to chase him down no you can hear people yelling at that point get him get his ass things like that right that is correct yes did you hear there's one that i've heard on this and i don't know if you've heard it
02:31:26
cranium that boy did you hear that i've heard it after the fact um in that moment i i do not recall hearing that no okay but you acknowledge you hear get him and get his ass correct i do okay so fair at that point you believe these people are those people are chasing him down yes i do and the i'm going to use the word mob you use whatever word you want it's getting bigger as they're running isn't it more people are joining this
02:31:59
i think that's a fair thing to say and you believe well tell me if this is true you were concerned for kyle rittenhouse's safety yes i was you were concerned because you saw and i'm going to refer to him as the only way we referred to him jump kick man so you see this guy kick him in the face true i do not see jump kick man kick him in the face
02:32:37
you see him attempt to kick him in the face from my perspective i didn't see any specific motion regarding kicking but it is fair to say that i did observe jump kick man going over the defendant okay and he's going if you remember he's going over the defendant with his foot in the air correct i don't recall that you have a picture and before i bring it up to be fair you're making up ground on mr
02:33:20
rittenhouse correct as you're running in his direction correct correct okay you eventually catch him all right come up right correct okay you see that going on correct okay so if we're being honest with one another he appears to me to try to kick him in the face right in this photograph yes okay well you how far away from this when it's going on are you
02:34:46
i don't recall how far away i was exactly when this uh action occurred you're a matter of feet right i think that's a fair thing to say okay close all right and you you're seeing this so you are having some concern maybe as a medic or you're while you're training uh that kyle rittenhouse is in physical danger is that right correct okay so and you believe he's in physical danger because he's being attacked right that's
02:35:18
fair that's a fair thing to say yes okay so you see this then you see can you bring up the hubert picture please then you see mr then you know that's you didn't know it netting but you know now that's anthony huber right correct okay and you see you saw this happening right correct and it was no more from me to you away probably at that point true i don't recall but it's probably fair yes
02:36:01
and in fact you had mentioned to the officers that you even recalled mr huber holding onto the trucks of that skateboard when he was striking him right correct and that to be fair as a medic that concerned you did it not i think any time that there is a risk of head trauma that's a risk yeah no fair enough so you believe in this picture one of the reasons you wanted to intervene was you believe that mr rittenhouse was in danger of being seriously hurt right
02:36:35
in part yes and you had mentioned to the police that evening that you tried telling mr huber you just said the guy but you tried telling the guy to stop hitting him with the skateboard is that right that is what i put in my statement yes is that true with the benefit of hindsight i don't believe that to be true no okay so when you told that to the police that you told the guy with the skateboard to stop
02:37:11
hitting him that that one that's not correct that's not true that is correct now your original statement then to the police was i tried telling the guy to stop hitting him with the skateboard the guy on the ground then turned over racked the weapon and pointed his gun at me and shot me right that is correct yes um you omitted the id you omitted the fact
02:37:54
that you ran up on him and had a glock pistol in your hand right you left that out correct would you think in a case where you are shot that providing the police information that you were actually possessing a firearm at the time would be relevant i think that's fair yes okay but you didn't think it was relevant to tell them that day correct it's not that i didn't think it wasn't relevant um after the defendant had shot me i had
02:38:28
just gotten out of surgery when the kenosha police officers had arrived and just gone through one of the most traumatic experiences in my life both emotionally and physically i just got out of surgery i had just been sedated i was on pain meds so go ahead i'm sorry i don't want to interrupt you um it wouldn't have been a purposeful uh omission you were asked at that same statement what you did for
02:38:59
work and you refused to answer that right that's correct so you made a conscious decision to not answer that that is correct you weren't so drugged that you couldn't answer that question right i refused because i was worried for my safety my point is that you had a thoughtful process not to answer that true that is correct you told this officer specifically what mr rittenhouse was wearing correct that is correct you had a thoughtful process even though you just got out of surgery and were drugged and whatever else is
02:39:30
going on which i understand you were still able to answer all those questions to the best of your ability and they were accurate right to the best of my ability yes okay so the fact that you failed to mention that you possessed a firearm when you were shot and that you dropped it were those things that you forgot because of your medication i would say not only the medication but also the traumatic experience that i've just
02:40:02
gone through and you understand it's the only information that you appear to have forgotten that puts you with a gun directly in front of him right that is correct now you are also then interviewed again by law enforcement in september is that right that is correct you bring your lawyer correct mr binger's there not in person okay but he's present he's
02:40:52
attending the meeting yes and there were three sorry he was present via zoom okay and there were a total if you remember three prosecutors present right the only two people who i were aware were their official capacity was the lead detective ben and terranian hopefully pronounce that correctly and then uh mr banger but as for the other people i'm sure they mentioned their names but
02:41:23
those are the two people that i that stuck out i guess i should say so the people that you recall detective antoranian mr binger your lawyer and you correct and you were asked on that day which would be now this is that would be your second statement you were asked about what had happened right correct and had you viewed some of the video between the shooting
02:41:55
and the interview that you gave on i think it was the 24th of september i can't say for sure but i would say it's a very fair guess that i had at least seen something at that point or by that point and in that interview you don't answer any questions about the shooting do you no i do not this lead detective on a homicide case where you are also shot
02:42:38
is trying to gather information to figure out exactly what went on and you refuse to answer questions about that right about specifically about the shooting yeah that is correct was that your decision or your lawyer's decision that was the advice that my counsel gave me so your counsel wouldn't let you answer questions about your involvement true i wouldn't say that she wouldn't let me but she advised against it
02:43:09
so your statements about what actually happened first time that we're getting an insight as to what actually happened is today right i don't think that's accurate well on the 24th you refuse to answer questions right the 24th of september correct and the day after the incident you acknowledge you left out the fact that you even had a gun right that is correct you were asked mr binger asked you about this
02:43:47
you were asked for permission to look through your phone right i do recall that yes you never actually gave your phone to detective anterimium to look through did you my phone was picked up off the street the night of the 20 the night of the 25th so no i didn't give my phone to anybody somebody and i'm assuming a police officer had picked it up my question to you that wasn't my question my question to you was detective anteramian asked you for permission to look through your
02:44:18
phone and you never gave him your phone true i never gave him permission to look through my phone now are you aware that he had a search warrant for your phone no i was not so so if i can uh mr grosskroots i'm going to walk you through a little bit of the video okay uh i haven't been notified that the lunch is here but uh i gotta pop up a little bit you heard me 15-20 minutes from now
02:45:11
yes okay it's up to you what do you are you fine with time you would ask for 12 to one right you are in the middle of an examination so i will uh i'll hear from you guys as to what you want to do if it's not here i'm fine i'm ready to continue i just didn't know if he had probably something for an hour whenever we went around okay i'll give you an hour whenever we stop thank you okay okay i'm gonna have you stop it a lot
02:45:42
okay now you see that this isn't you but you see this gentleman right here i do it's up to you i don't you're welcome to use your glasses if you want thank you he's got it oh he's gone you see this gentleman right here right i do okay now you agree he advanced on what ran after came up to mr rittenhouse right can you rewind just slightly you agree that he runs up to mr rittenhouse and then applies the brakes
02:46:45
right i do okay and you'd agree that he's meter you away and that's a fair assessment pass through three feet he's advancing on mr rittenhouse and you'd agree he puts his hands up and mr rittenhouse never fires his gun correct that is correct okay now you're off screen here at this point right you haven't come into the frame yet no i have not okay that is for lack of a better term this
02:47:16
gentleman right here this is jump kick man right i i believe so yes so you can play it so you now see that junk kick man kicked mr rittenhouse in the face and two shots are fired correct uh with this video yes okay you hear that right uh in the moment yes i did hear it okay now if you can see and we'll play it i don't i'm not trying to trick you
02:47:49
this is mr huber correct um it is hard to see with whatever is blocking um play it for a second okay that's mr huber right that is correct yes now this person here that's just coming into the frame that's you that is correct yes and you are running correct yes i was okay now you had originally said that you wanted um you were gonna tell mr you were the
02:48:22
fascinating one but now you understand that you didn't say anything you were just running whatever word you went you're moving towards mr rittenhouse right that is correct yes okay we just heard a shot yes correct okay and to be fair that you put on the brakes right you were running you then almost stopped in your tracks fair enough correct okay and i don't know if your arms are up at that point but it looks like you're kind of protecting your head at that point is that fair that is correct okay how far
02:48:58
do you think you are away from him at that point to the best of your ability i would say about there uh between um me and you you and i are correct three feet three five okay now at that point you have your hands up right yes i do now you probably don't notice him at the time guys hold on what looks like a wooden club of some type
02:49:33
some sort of wooden object yes okay so your hands are up and at that point he has not fired at you correct no he has not okay it's gonna be quick you'd agree at this point you are dropping your hands you are loading your front foot and you are moving toward mr rittenhouse at that point true yes okay so when you we're shot can you bring up the photo
02:50:16
you'd agree and now wait how close do you think you are to him at that three feet if it was five feet before it would so so tell me if i've got the lay of the land at this point you're holding a loaded chambered glock 27 in your right hand yes that is correct yes you are advancing on mr rick house who is seated on his butt right that is correct
02:50:51
you're moving forward and your right hand drops down with your gun your hands are no longer up and now they're the gun is pointed in the direction of mr red house agree i'll give you a picture maybe that'll help what's the next one so um mr gross i'm gonna show you what has been marked as exhibit 67. uh that's a photo of you yes yes okay um that's mr rittenhouse
02:51:56
correct okay now you'd agree your firearm is pointed at mr rittenhouse correct yes okay and once your firearm is pointed yes no sir look i don't wanna does this look like right now your arm is being shot that looks like my bicep being vaporized yes okay and it's being vaporized as you're
02:52:31
pointing your gun directly at you yes yes okay so when you were standing three to five feet from him with your arms up in the air he never fired right correct it wasn't until you pointed your gun at him advanced on him with your gun now your hands down pointed at him that he fired right correct you had now you had mentioned that you believe
02:53:29
that he was re-racking i think you i don't know much about guns but you had mentioned that you believed he was re-racking his gun or something right that is correct yes now this is your i mean this is right this is your tweet from november 5th so during this trial you're tweeting out yes yes and you tweet out to whoever these people are make sure you look and listen for the defendant's firearm malfunction and then
02:54:00
you have a a winky emoji face is that right that is correct yes okay so this is the fifth was yesterday that would have been friday friday time um so friday at 7 45 you and what's the winky emoji i believe that was in response to uh
02:54:31
whoever the original um whoever the original poster is on there i don't know what the original post was but it was more than likely in response to this person's opinion that they had posted now you you had said that you were looking for a non-lethal way to end this interaction that is that is correct yes yet you pulled your gun out and began
02:55:10
i'm gonna use the word chase you bet you began chasing or running after a man who was running away from him correct that is correct now you had said and you were asked about the do no harm and the tattoo on your arm and things like that right um you have some regrets from that evening don't you no well jacob marshall's your roommate isn't he no he's not he was your roommate correct he was yes
02:55:46
and jacob marshall came to visit you in the hospital is that right yes he did and i know he's taken it down but not before we saw it he posted something on either twitter or facebook with you right correct do you remember that remember what the picture that you guys took in the hospital together yes i do we haven't done there's two reasons um
02:57:26
we need to talk about this um so maybe uh maybe we should uh um i assume you have more questions beyond this not a ton but we should probably get this cleared up yeah we might as well uh let's take a break uh please don't talk about the case during the break i assume your lunch will be here shortly uh don't read watch or listen on any account of the trial um okay see you in a little bit i'll see
02:57:56
you at about 1 15. thank you you

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