Narcissist Exorcism | HG Tudor Interview

Narcissist Exorcism | HG Tudor Interview

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00:08
narcissist is a serious personality disorder you ask any victim that's been on the receiving end if they don't think it's serious and see what reaction you get there are too many terms that are used which cause people to think it's something less serious so there is always going to be narcissists on the planet how do you deal with it you learn to recognize what we are i just wanted to say thank you you really helped to kind of save my life in a certain way and the reason i brought you on is because i talk about cults on
00:39
my channel which to me is the same as being an abusive relationship with a narcissist a sociopath and i wanted to invite you on to inform the audience of this most important subject so with that background could you please tell people a little bit about you and how you came to be a narcissistic psychopath friends welcome back we are very lucky to be joined by one of my favorite and most informative guests hg tutor and
01:10
this is the fourth interview that we've done so i'm going to leave a link in the description box as well as the pinned comment for the other three interviews that we did because we're going to be picking it up from there we've covered quite a bit of info on the previous interviews hg how are you doing my man i'm well thank you thank you for asking doug and pleasure to be back again always enjoy our conversation so looking forward to our discussion today and i know many of my listeners are as well they always praise the interaction between you and i so they'll be looking forward to listening
01:41
to this thank you man and hg i really really do appreciate you coming on uh not only once but multiple times i love speaking with you and i get a tremendous amount out of your work even to this day it's an endless rabbit hole narcissism it really is do you do you um i just i'll just ask you right off the bat cause i was curious as myself do you think you can are you gonna do this for the rest of your life is this a lifetime endeavor where you'll never run out of material well as you know i have a professional
02:11
in a private life alongside what i call blog world doug and with that um there'll come a point where i will reduce what i do professionally and then i either decide do i do i play lots of golf and start making cathedrals out of matchsticks or really not really the look of a narcissistic psychopath is it there but nobody will know nobody knows you exactly yeah maybe i'll uh maybe i'll just make satanic
02:43
monuments out of matchsticks instead and make it more fitting that's how everybody envisions you yeah indeed that's right you know as you know i i'm sat here now with the sulfur smouldering around me and minions being tortured with tridents and pitchforks will i do this for the rest of my life there is so much i want to convey to people in terms of my own story more information about my kind and at the moment i sort of juxtaposed between people coming to me for help
03:15
through consultations of which that's booming there's so many people uh want that assistance and are gaining it alongside the content creation that goes with us and i look to strike a balance between those two things for people and of course there's always stuff being generated by my kind on a day-to-day basis you know we only have to look at the enduring series involving harry's wife that that's the gift that keeps on giving and then we have uh ben affleck came along and he provided some material the donald will pop up
03:46
from time to time sleepy joe will do something that might just about merit some commentary on it we've got putin flexing his muscles on the border with ukraine so there's always that kind of material that can come up whether it's a pop star whether it's an influencer which is i hate that term there's all those people to talk about and explain to people new people come and arrive at the work and need to embrace all of that so that there is a whole lot more that i need to convey and i will continue doing i think the safest way of putting is i'm not going anywhere else anytime soon
04:18
that's good to hear because people need your help my man yeah they do they do and i enjoy the intellectual stimulation comes from people coming with their problems and addressing them and of course the extension of my legacy and i think the next stage really is looking at particularly substantial content creation that i'll engage in and then embracing particular platforms which will extend my reach now i have had some discussion with uh venture capitalists to invest in
04:50
me as a brand and they're a very embryonic stage that would enable me of course with that basically that marketing clout that they would provide through investment enable me to really get out there and become far more prominent and i don't mean i'm well known within the field of narcissism i mean outside of that that's where the inroads need to be made so the lawyers i noticed on youtube there's a lawyer she commented saying i listen to all of this to make me more effective as a lawyer to help my clients which
05:20
bravo for her it's that type of thing to get in amongst all the people who don't know anything about narcissism rather than go to these supposed relationship experts so there'll be a huge platform and there's talk of creating an academy i think i might have touched on that last time and there's all of those all of those things of course with that there comes a potential for the erosion of my control over it and as you know control's key to me so there will be a balance that will need to be struck in that regard but there's a lot more i want to convey
05:52
there's a lot more that i want to explain and explore and there's always plenty for me to interpret for people and thanks for doing that again and you know i was thinking if your work could ever get into the school system that's where we would need to teach people as youngsters right i mean so many so much damage would be curtailed if maybe not children but certainly teenagers could start getting start getting hit to this and as you say people that come to you people like me
06:23
that have narcissistic you know families and cult experiences we know where to go but the general population doesn't come across this information probably until it ensnares them until they're affected by it they go through 10 years of trauma and trying to figure it out and also that that leads right into the first question i had to you you know this is such a um the hooks that go in um on a person are so deep and it can change you fundamentally i speak from personal experience but anybody that's been
06:54
through narcissistic abuse will know the challenge and the fundamental change that it can actually give you in everything your outlook on life being able to spot evil like never before etc so i was wondering what the heck are the what makes it so powerful what makes it what are the mechanisms and mechanics that make it such an uh unique trauma [Music] i think it's primarily because it's invariably inflicted on people
07:25
without them knowing what they're dealing with and it's almost that sensation of being hoodwinked so i've mentioned elsewhere in my work that you have uh there's almost a naivety among certain where they expect the burglar will be wearing a striped shirt and and a mask and a bag mark swag and the pedophile wears a greasy mac and he's got long lang hair and he hangs out at children's playgrounds i don't think any pedophiles do that
07:56
they coach football teams don't they and then scout leaders and their teachers and their the neighbor and then the stepfather and all of those types of things because they blend in and i think for people that they have this notion really that danger and evil as it's termed presents itself in a very obvious way and it doesn't and when they find themselves experiencing that it goes for instance when the the the the respectable gentleman who's never said
08:27
bru to a goose suddenly axe murders three members of his family and shoots a police officer and you have the neighborhood things like that don't happen here he seems so quiet they seem such like a nice family yeah because we don't go round smelling of sulfur with horns you know running around chasing after people with chainsaws and so forth and i think for people it is not only of course people suffer the physical injury they suffer loss of money some tangible aspects
08:59
but i think it is that emotional psychological cost which is caused by the fact that you engage with someone in an open and honest way certainly what i perceive from my victims and those of the people that i talk to you engage with the person in an open and honest way and you thought they were like you and then you found out that this person wasn't and to have your trust violated in that way and also in a sense to feel rather stupid that you didn't see it coming but nobody does alongside everything else that really is the salt that's rubbed into the wound that you feel
09:30
um why did i not see it happening why did i not pick up on it and to think you let this person into your home you let them meet your children you introduce them to colleagues you lent them money you open empathic people invariably or ultimately end up opening themselves up and that's exposure and then the way they're treated thereafter it feels like the ultimate betrayal and i think that's why it hurts so much allied of course with the lack of understanding generated by the the double whammy of the manipulative behaviors combined with emotional
10:00
thinking that people can't make sense of it i often explain to people that it is that lack of understanding that really cements the hurt you're walking along the road and let's say for instance a man comes up and punches you in the face dug and how that hurts and he's broken your nose or bruised your face but what will could trouble you more after the bruises faded is why did he assault me who was that man why did you pick on me doug but if you had been having an affair with his wife you'd know oh yeah i know that's him he's
10:32
found out about it okay i kind of deserved that and that's the problem for many victims is why did it happen to me what was it about me that caused this person to treat me that way why after the way that i was fair to them and supportive etc did they feel that they needed to treat me in this manner and there is that cognitive dissonance that they really struggle with the emotional thinking gets hold of that cognitive dissonance and uses it against individuals the biggest thing i always explain to people when they come and they are bewildered and they're hurt and
11:01
they it really gets them why did this person hg who said they loved me and treated me so kindly was fantastic and interesting why did it go wrong so you're looking at it the wrong way around what you have to say to yourself is the fact that somebody was abusive towards you demonstrated that what came first was not genuine because somebody who loves you with emotional empathy will not abuse you it just doesn't happen so somebody abuse you it's like it's like doing those equations in algebra rever change it round and you work it out and you'll be able to see this person systematically
11:34
would refuse to speak to me steal my money cheat on me walk away from me perhaps physically assault me all of those behaviors are abuses therefore what came before it can't be genuine because of that abusive behavior when people manage to get that cemented in their minds it makes a lot of it go away but prior to that they're unable to grasp that and that's what makes it so difficult for them on top of all of the abuse the lack of understanding and the feeling of ultimate betrayal
12:05
man it's like you can read my mind because i'm just sitting here going wow you're describing me how how is it that you can become how is it that you become so aware of how how this works and also how could it hg did this is this is what trips me out about you you're a rare breed of being a self-aware narcissist that's clear that you understand what you're talking about because you hit to the core of like that you just explained my life yeah with that amount of awareness i just always would see what you just
12:35
said before is kind of a it's like i had a lack of an imagination for evil i never thought that you know um i didn't know that people could be that way because i can't be that way myself much as i tried and it's like you said being duped on that level and then having to go all the way back and relive it and see how it really worked from the beginning is really really brutal because you're just constantly being shocked as to who this person really was that you're dealing with and it's frightening you know and
13:06
and how exactly uh wouldn't wouldn't somebody like you with a conscience of exactly how you know the psyche works wouldn't at a level of intelligence tell you hey i need to not be like this i need like why wouldn't you rather than other narcissists maybe be able to actually change because i see no reason to do so because when people transgress they must be punished and i find it entertaining to treat them in the way that i do when i'm drawing somebody in and they've no idea what i
13:38
am that amuses me now i know yeah i know people will say that's a twisted sense of humor well that's your perspective on it but to me it's about the games are always being played i get bored very quickly so i have to have that stimulation of playing the game of the challenge that person identify them can i own them can i make them mine and then setting to work on it and i can do so and knowing that they are now my
14:08
possession that's power and control and i always must have that control and whatever the interaction it is and essentially many people because of the way that i interact with them and i see them i find them weak and it disgusts me and that they walk through life staring at the floor watching mindless television wasting their lives and i've had people say to me well they're not harming anybody so what's
14:40
the issue i said well the issue is it offends me because that kind of waste that exists that the weakness that's exhibited prompts me to want to punish them for it and with some individuals the very fact that they exist in that way offends me and i want to do something which punishes them for living in that manner in the same way i will see other narcissists and the way that they behave
15:10
i think is odious and pathetic the very needy mid-ranges and nothing would delight me more than to take many of them out the back and shoot them because that's what they just because they are just these merely mouthed walnut balls yeah and but then also there are those who cross me and if you do that you threaten my sense of control and that cannot happen that's an absolute with me because of the way that i've been created that
15:41
if you do something from my perspective i don't care if somebody else says well from my perspective that would be a threat to control i'm not interested i understand your view but it's my perspective that matters because it's me that's dealing with this individual and in those circumstances if you threaten my control you will be dealt with now that doesn't mean that i immediately walk over to somebody and slit their throat because that's ridiculous but it might be just as simple so for i'll give you an example only earlier today i help all of these
16:13
people with the provision of lots of free material on my blog rating comments youtube videos and so forth i also charge for my services because you should do with expertise many people recognize that that's appropriate and there's one particular individual who came along in an email and asked me how much is it for a consultation with you so i politely replied and explained is 150 for one hour i then got an email back saying that's ridiculous that's way too much and you should not be making money out of people's misery
16:44
now of course that's immediately a threat to my controllers challenge fuel and this dunder head comes along and so consequently my response is to write would you go and say that to a lawyer to a doctor to a therapist i said go read the testimonials and you don't have to use my services i'm very reasonably priced and so i nullify that threat to control now i don't know who that person is it's a name on the internet but as soon as that comes i can't let
17:15
that go in terms of i i can be dismissive so i so sometimes when i see comments that attack me i just laugh to myself you know well yeah you're just an underling and i dismiss it and that's the third assertion of control but i have to deal with it in some way no matter what it is and in some instances where it's someone that poses a much larger threat to my control they'll have to be disincentivized in a particular way that might be done physically it might be done financially it might be done with that go out to their reputation
17:45
a tertiary source such as that they get an email explaining that they're wrong and it's dealt with but it still has to be dealt with they then of course came back with something and of course it's quite apparent this person was probably of low cognitive function so they came back with something which didn't make sense and i said well you'll have to excuse me i have paying clients i must look after. that's it more emails came in i just ignored them and that by ignoring them that's the assertion of control but the point remains that individual has to be dealt with and each and every
18:15
interaction that i have with somebody that has to be dealt with in accordance with due to the prior names you couldn't just let something go like it you know i get comments and bad stuff all the time and sometimes it irks me but i can kind of just ignore it and it doesn't really land are you saying that everything lands on a narcissist it does so if somebody writes writes a comment say on youtube and they're wrong in what they're asserting about something i've said the immediate sort of millisecond response i
18:48
have is the ignition of fury very quickly to then not to write i'm going to come and find you burn down your house and annihilate all your family but rather you're wrong i'm now going to correct you but immediately i my mind evaluates it as is it worth me spending my time correcting that particular individual the way that they presented suggests to me they're not open to reason therefore the easiest thing to do is i just ignore it assertion of control by ignoring them but it's landed for a
19:20
millisecond and has to be dealt with other instances i will see this person is laboring under a misapprehension i can tell by the language that they've used that i could respond in a constructive fashion to correct them and they're likely then to accept that correction appropriately so i can go back to them and say thank you for your comment uh you're actually wrong and then i explain to the point why they are and then invariably they'll come back oh yeah thanks for pointing that out to me i i appreciate that i understand that
19:51
but again it has to be just but again it's landed each time it's only a pin prick and of course a less evolved narcissist it affects them to a greater extent because they've not got the skill set to be able to deal with it so that's why you see certain narcissists who suddenly get into what we call a flame war in a forum with somebody because rather than move on they've got it back and go back and go back and go back and they just fire the same thing over and over and over again and then they'll
20:21
hold the ad hominem insults i don't do that because i'm more professional and indeed indeed i'm waiting for them to throw the ad hominem insult towards me which then signifies yeah you've resorted to that uh which demonstrates that you don't have any actual cogent intellectual arguments to utilize thank you very much and of course recognize this with with certain individuals like that you won't be able to get them to change their mind because they're stupid so what you do is when i point it out to
20:52
them i'm not invariably doing it for them i'm doing it for the rest of my readers and viewers so they learn from the exchange and it's that way so because remember i have to assert control over that individual whilst maintaining control over everybody else that's on the radar at that moment wow because so in the same way as i'm talking to you by answering your questions i am asserting control of you in a benign manner but at the same time i have to have one eye or one ear on the audience that's going to be listening to
21:23
us so it's maintaining that control so if i certainly had a hissy fit with you i might for instance you asked me something which challenged me was challenge fuel doug um that and i don't have an issue with that but let's say you did and if i was a different type of narcissist i might deal with it by saying uh [ __ ] you doug and ending the call now i've asserted control over you because i insulted you and i've withdrawn from the call but then what's the collateral consequence of that i look like a douche canoe
21:56
watching it so you will never get that with me so you remember you sometimes see the politicians on television i'm not doing this and they storm off piers morgan walked off uh good morning britain when he was arguing with the weatherman about uh harry's wife and for one such as i there's always that part of my mind as the uh the triple tracking that's going on he's thinking about what's dug asking me what's the next point going to go to i'm also thinking about what will the
22:26
audience be thinking about this and my minds also be thinking about something else which is unrelated to the conversation that you and i are having and that's because my narcissism has to keep all of those plates spinning at the same time and i know people are listening oh gosh that was sounding that sounds that's exactly what i was going to say hg we're back to one of the other interviews it sounds so exhausting plus you pump out this content you work your ass off i'm like dude i don't have the time to engage in all the stuff you do how the heck do you even get everything done and engage in those applications
22:57
remember it is about hg sat in an empty room doesn't achieve anything okay so because i'm a narcissistic psychopath i'm the crossbreed of narcissist and psychopath so i have a need for fuel but my need for fuel isn't as great as that as a pure narcissist so i can have longer periods of non-interaction with people okay i don't experience fear that's my antisocial personality disorder i have a low boredom threshold
23:28
so a pure psychopath doesn't need fuel but because i'm not a pure psychopath i do need fuel but as i mentioned not as great as that of a pure narcissist and the point is i can quite readily sit and do nothing and if i wanted to just stare at the firmament as the sun goes down but that's not achieving anything for me there's no issue with control because there's nobody on the radar but what and i might not need any fuel at that moment and i might not need any character traits or residual benefits
24:01
but i'm wasting that time because i'm not using it for anything now for many people they say i just want to sit and relax i get that i don't need to do that i need to be doing so i either need to be controlling somebody i need to be creating something i need to be doing what i'm doing professionally controlling the the intimate partner primary source in my private life in non-intimate secondary source friends assimilating information from them always moving forward learning more because i have a huge
24:31
intellectual curiosity sitting and reading picking stuff up off the internet uh whatever it might be you know something to do with the latest launch into space or someone's sporting prowess the latest football results whatever it might be political tensions and so on and so forth and i know people that gosh you know that sounds exhaustive but it isn't that's how i function so it isn't tiring to me yes i i i get mentally tired and physically tired by the end of the day and then i go to sleep sleep my four or
25:02
five hours and then i'm up and at it again the next day straight out of the box but i don't sort of flop around doing nothing lying on the settee just staring vacantly into space because that's not achieving anything for me um it's almost like they i always have to be sort of swimming because if i don't that's it it's game over is is that a regular everyday trait of a narcissist because one of the things i've noticed and the ones i've experienced which i've been a little bit jealous of is they can
25:34
accomplish a lot so is the drive to do that the narcissism h.g is is it is it this is it the lack of uh such a lack of an inner self or the true self i think as you call it to keep that monster at bay is it the narcissism that's driving most absolutely you you have contentment and i don't so my kind we are envious of your contentment we can't stand it really the fact that you yeah the fact you could sit on your
26:05
porch at the end of the day and say today's been a good day in the life of doug and just kick back with a beer and stare at the horizon and feel content in that moment we can't do that you can't really so we might we might lie and say that we we can in order to fit in but that that would be involving with somebody so i could sit on the porch with you and we could both stare at the sun going down and go ah this is great isn't it but i'm controlling you i'm drawing fuel from you and i'm requiring
26:37
the moment to utilize so there's still something happening but being on my own i don't feel that i feel a sense of achievement for instance i can say you know i've done x number of consultations today i i achieved this this and this in my professional life so one i have huge achievements that i get but there's never any sense of contentment because there's another hill to climb there's always something that needs to be done to keep the creature at bay because there is no
27:07
true that that inner self doesn't exist in the way that it does for you so that's empty and has to be filled now it doesn't cause me a problem i don't resent being that way that's what i am and i recognize that but what you'll see is with your mid-range narcissists and your lesson artists i explain to people when they think oh look you know the narcissist he's gotten to the sunset he's gone off with that other woman he's gone on holiday with her and left me in the dirt with death etc i said listen
27:38
the outward appearance is that everything's hunky-dory but he'll be on that sun lounger and the narcissism is churning looking for the next fuel that's got to get there'll be that sense of restlessness oh that need to do something he can't he might lie there and do nothing for four hours but the narcissism will then cause him to have to act to and that's why you'll be sat with a narcissist on holiday soaking up the sunshine and then you get needled over something because the narcissist needs to provoke a reaction
28:08
in you we can't just enjoy the moment we're incapable of it wow that makes so much sense every time you talk i'm having memories of certain events with certain people do you um h.g how about so we've gone in quite a bit of detail about the mechanisms of narcissism in the previous interviews how about let's swing over to some solutions because people have left a lot of comments they want to know kind of like okay so what do we do about this how long does it take to like recognize a narcissist when
28:39
you're dealing with someone what how do you figure out who you know that you're dealing with a narcissist or a normal person do you have to get captured first a little bit in order to figure it out because you can't make a snap judgment right based on one characteristic correct you don't necessarily have to be ensnared in the fullest sense of the word doug what you can do is kind of observe a person from afar so for example let's take a famous individual so i've done the series recently about ben
29:10
affleck now i've not had any personal dealings with him but i poured through a lot of material about his life to reach the conclusions as to what he is now let's say inside who i am let's say i was an empath doing that research i can establish what ben affleck is without the danger of being involved with him so you can if you've got sufficient information now of course most people aren't famous and their lives aren't documented in that way so
29:41
the only way you learn about them of course is that you get close to them and therein lies the risk so for most people to find out whether you're dealing with a narcissist unfortunately for them means you've got to go in the lion's den and you've got to spend time with them and remember of course many narcissists mid ranger points operate facades so they're not the person that you see day to day be maybe completely differently be completely different in private so you
30:12
see that person who's at the office and he's helpful and he speaks well to people then he goes home and beats his wife up and calls him a [ __ ] and he's horrible to his children and highly likely that individual is a narcissist so you have to look at the behavior over a period of time the way is as i've written about in my books red flag and black flag you can see some of the indicators fairly quickly and if you earn on the side of caution and say well they might i might not know completely whether they're a
30:42
narcissist but there's enough there that makes me feel uneasy about it i'll bail there's nothing wrong with that because you're you're operating on the side of caution and if you think well what if that means i lose out on somebody decent well the 7.8 billion people on the planet another one will come along soon so don't worry about that you're better off playing safe with it in terms of how long does it take well i will pick up on whether somebody's a narcissist within a matter of 15 20 minutes talking to really
31:12
yeah but i know what i'm looking for very much and the way that they interact with me and the way that they respond and also i i will in certain instances i'll be prodding them a little bit as well to provoke those reactions for everybody else you you are really looking at um depending upon the amount of time that you spend together you'd be looking really at weeks-long interactions before you could really say with certainty and of course the risk factor is by that time it's too late your emotional thinking's risk and you're in and you've fallen in love or
31:44
they've become your best mate or you've taken the job and that and that's the hazard the important thing is that when you become accustomed to out to identifying the indicators and you've reduced your emotional thinking that what you can do is as i mentioned earlier is play safe and think something not quite i'll distance myself i'll back off i'll cool it or completely remove myself and that's what you do so you get it almost like you get a sense and a sniff for it as an early adjuster so you don't run the risk but for as you identified that for most people you're
32:16
gonna get burned at least once before you start to learn about narcissism nobody knows about narcissism without having experienced it in some way wow good point i was wondering about that so nobody's necessarily going to go out of their way and learn it or dive down the narcissistic rabbit hole without being affected by it right correct and you can say of course of the psychologists and psychotherapists that have studied narcissism i think you can say with the degree of
32:49
legitimacy if they've never come across a narcissist themselves they don't really know what they're talking about because studying it from a textbook is anybody listening will be nodding now we'll be saying studying it from a textbook is nowhere near what it's like when you've experienced it they're pulls apart because what's written in a textbook is what what's that concept that's a bit esoteric uh what does that actually mean uh and then when you experience the full visceral effect of the narcissist in your life
33:20
that's where you gain your narc wings if i can describe it as such from being on the receiving end of it and i've come across many people in my consultations who say yeah i've been to see a professional they've clearly never been involved with a narcissist because they just don't get it they know about it from what they've read but they don't have that fulsome understanding that's required um and for most people to go down the rabbit hole means they have to be personally affected by it the best education i ever got in psychology and my own psychology
33:51
is through getting the [ __ ] kicked out of me and narcissists if i had just studied about it in a psychology class it wouldn't have meant [ __ ] my life was on the line hd to recover and find out what happened to me in the cult and i had a forced education and anybody like you said that's been through this will know exactly what we're talking about here because it's an education like no other so this this this makes me wonder like what i said to you before like thank you to the narcissist thank you hg
34:22
to for the damage because you've it a narcissist can force growth in a person that would be totally off the radar no the only narcissist you're gonna think is me because i and joking apart because i don't abuse you i give you the straight answer and allow you to progress you never give thanks to the narcissist in your life for personal growth because that's emotional thinking really or still remains that yup you're still
34:53
remaining bound to the narcissist if you think that the narcissist has done you a favor but allowing you to understand more about yourself scratch that thought immediately you were the person that learned more about yourself they didn't facilitate it yeah the narcissist didn't come along and say right what i'm going to do is i'm going to abuse you but it'll make you a better person he's not a drill instructor at the marine corps that's saying this is for your own good matey boy so and this does happen that people come and say well you know at least one thing
35:23
good thing that's come out of this hd and i say what's that you know i i can say thank you to the narcissist for allowing me to grow i said you can stop that right there in fact that's high because that is emotional thinking and they go really i said yes because you are thanking an abuser right right right that's not logical what you've got to say is that yourself say to yourself i have a fortitude to get through this well said the inner resilience to learn more about myself and so that's part of your no contact
35:54
raised demon you you must not allow the narcissist in so say the only narcissist you think is this one that's such a [ __ ] man that's such great advice and that's why i love that you have this cold cool hard logic because man i get caught emotionally and i have been thanking my narcissist but you're right i did the work i'm the one that got myself out of it and they're the ones that made me i never actually thought of that h.g i never thought i never got that way doug did the cult that you were in did the cult sit down and think we'll we
36:24
will recruit doug and then what we'll do is we'll give him a learning experience no they didn't say that no they didn't no they didn't i never freaking thought of that man until you said that i've been carrying that around for years jesus why keep listening to you man because it's like layers and layers and it peels and it peels and it never stops that's why i asked you if you're going to do this for a lifetime because you could do the lab this is what i wanted to ask you hg for us that have been wounded is there an actual healing point because i gotta
36:55
tell you my friend i think that this wound permanently changed me it doesn't matter how much self-worth you're healing i'm not obsessed with the self-working i feel okay and i can spot on you know i'm not all i'm not in the same environment but it so affected me like we were talking about earlier these hooks are so deep i feel like it permanently altered me sure i explain to people when they talk about the need to heal well i understand the concept of you've suffered a physical injury from the narcissist so you need to heal
37:27
the narcissist exhausted you so you need to get your sleep pattern and your energy levels back or your finances have been completely [ __ ] over so you need to sort those out yeah that's a kind of healing there but the idea that you need to heal from something that happened in your past no the cake is baked as i often say that's who you are now when you've been affected by our kind which has created the addiction within you all you need to understand is this is who you are and who you've been made you can't undo that
38:00
okay and if you spend your time trying to embrace all of that all you'll do is become locked in this cycle of naval gazing and not getting on with your life thinking there's something wrong with you there is only something wrong with you when we come along right so you invariably will that there'll be some individuals for instance who might be you know they are excessively shy in social situations okay so you can do
38:31
some work on improving that but to think that you've got this sort of i don't know in a child that somehow has the inner childhood wounds that you can't you're an adult now the gate is closed on that and why should you why should you change who you are do do we go around and say to somebody who can't walk and they're in a wheelchair you need to change who you are you need to make yourself walk no you don't you accept that person can't walk so
39:02
if an individual has these flaws that's part of who they are what you need to recognize is who is it that will exploit those flaws and use them against me and most people won't but my kind will because i need for control i sniff that vulnerability in you thank you very much i'm now going to use that against you at the appropriate time what's that you were abused as a child thank you very much i'll unlock that away you're scared of the dark thanks for sharing that with me oh what the christmas tree once fell over
39:34
and you're terrified thank you for sharing that i must remember to push you into the christmas tree where's your empathy gone so you're turning me into a narcissistic my powers are strong and far-reaching i had no idea so with that you've got to recognize that you have those flaws and with some yes you might make some improvements with them as i say you know somebody who's particularly shy but
40:10
that's still who you are and it's us that come along and and utilize that so i explained to empathic people rather than get hung up on trying to change who you are i regularly hear and see oh hg i wish i wasn't so much of an empath tough tough you are deal with it and it's only a problem when we come along so how do you deal with it get your emotional thinking down learn the signs of analysis and steer clear yet they still like you said it's kind of a is it permanent i mean is there any way to
40:42
sort of like have a narc repellent where you i don't know get some kind of fortitude enough knowledge whatever as an empathic person where you actually do stop attracting these people or is it just a given that these [ __ ] are going to come into your life because they sniff blood and that's just the way it is it's just the way it is we you will always attract us but the point is you can do do so much to ensure that you know we're coming towards you and that you act on that information that's key you'll always draw us like um ants to the jam
41:14
but the point is that you can ensure that you move the jam away nice and quick because you see the ants coming you recognize them and you act on it whereas before you didn't realize what it was and then people are clouded by emotional thinking that they learn about it but they don't act upon it but you will always draw as to ours is a symbiotic relationship you're drawn to us because of the addiction we're drawn to you because your addiction makes you easier to ensnare and keep ensnared and you cater to the prime names better than anybody else so whilst normals and narcissists
41:44
and narcissistic people can also cater the primes for me if there was a smorgasbord with the range of people there i'd choose empath every single time right because they hate the prime names more effectively than anybody else and you say that it's a fuel that's the lifeblood of the narcissist and that's the emotional reaction or that you're feeding off of from the empathic person and therefore they're more powerful and that's why can i ask you more about that that's fuel that's fuel right so
42:14
what is it about can you first explain it is it the emotional reaction hd and if so what is it about the emotions in particular is it some kind of energy like a vampire gets what is it about that emotional energy well some people do liken it to an energy vampire it's not the case that you're the depletion of your energy then translates into giving me energy so it's not like say in um
42:45
like in dungeons and dragons i think it's a a white or a wraith puts their hand on one of the characters and that and the lifeblood that they drain out of them automatically goes into that the the undead character and and it's not like that what it is is that your response gives us validation and also signifies that you're under control where it's pure fuel and as a consequence of that
43:14
it enables us to have a sense of being and purpose that we matter because the fact is when we were formed essentially we were created in an environment where we didn't matter because we didn't have control and so where your reaction to us tells us that we matter and that equates to making us feel powerful so that we don't feel weak or vulnerable so it's not a direct energy exchange
43:47
so it's not sort of almost like a dementor sucking the life out of harry potter it's more a case of your reaction which is an emotional one namely a kind gesture you make me a cup of tea you tell me that you love me you blow me a kiss you flip the bird at me you tell me that i'm an [ __ ] with an angry face all of those have emotion attached to them of some nature that signifies that i've impacted upon you and therefore because i've impacted on you i must exist and i must matter that
44:19
means i'm important that means i've got power that's what it equates to so the narcissists exist by way of the empathic person what if what if is it i'm not say is it possible to starve the narcissist out of existence what you would do is if you had a situation where you captured a narcissist and took him into the countryside and stuck him in a bunker with no way of communicating with anybody he would have a fuel crisis and basically go into a catatonic state suffering psychosis
44:50
depression breakdown but he wouldn't die what basically what would happen is he would go to the state of almost like um i don't know if you've watched the black mirror series doug i have okay so remember metalhead where the dogs were chasing them across the landscape i haven't watched it that much i only watched like two episodes it's basically we don't know what we don't know what's happened but uh the actress maxine peake is being pursued along with some of her friends across the landscape in britain and
45:21
there are these um these dog-like robots pursuing them and she climbs a tree and her thought process is i'll keep activating it by moving so the dog sits up and notices her until the battery runs down and so similarly the narcissist gets worn down as the fuel level drops until the narcissus won't function but as soon as you came along to recharge that dog away it would go again it
45:53
wouldn't be destroyed so similarly with the narcissist when somebody comes along and opens up the hatch into that bunker and goes down and starts talking to the narcissist and gives them some fuel what's that doing it's recognizing existence and validating the narcissist and like those first drops of uh invigorating water on a plant it starts to bloom again and that will that's what would happen so you can starve a narcissist the point is you shouldn't really go about trying to do that because we have a fuel matrix
46:23
and if you you remove yourself from the fuel matrix that's good you protect yourself but what you shouldn't do is go around trying to ensure that nobody else interacts with the narcissist because then you're putting yourself on our radar and we will fight back against you with adverse consequences for you and of course we have so many people that we interact with that you might not know about so you'd struggle to do it the only way really that you'd achieve it is in my example you basically kidnap the narcissist and hold them hostage somewhere and i'm sure there's many
46:53
people who'd be tempted to do that but don't try that at home kids i wonder what kind of education like let's say you could get your work into schools and they and the population in general really was proofed up against narcissism and knew how to recognize it i wonder if it could be if these people you know that rise to the top and want to dominate and [ __ ] everybody up i wonder if that could be starved out hg by education i think well you know unfortunately human beings are stupid
47:26
that's true you know we have we have florida man don't we so uh the fact is that we tell people you know don't push that button so what do they do they push that button and you know don't you know don't touch the live wires you're it's an electric shock and some episodes comes along and does it it's so true man you just described the human race yeah exactly so same way you know we we've had education for hundreds of years and it still produces
47:57
idiots yeah it's going to be a section of society that will never learn and so they they will be fed on by us but what you would probably have is if you were able to educate a large section of the populace that were empathic to stay away that's the that's where it would be interesting because well normal people can be ensnared by us but they either are more difficult to ensnare or they don't ensnare stay ensnared for long so what would happen is if all the
48:29
empaths were retreating from us more or less on mass then basically all the low-hanging fruits disappearing so we'd have to go after harder targets which would necessitate greater energy expenditure and what you might then see is that your lower echelon narcissists fall by the wayside because they are basically ineffective and if they can't get hold of somebody to breed with who knows you might start to breed out wow they're lower levels it's it's a
48:59
it's a hypothesis it sounds like a a correct hypothesis that makes a lot of sense what you just said and similarly you would then end up with a lot of knock and knock action so that makes sense that exists i mean take any political environment take congress take the house of commons there's a lot of knock on knock action that's going yes there is so and of course we assert control over one another and two narcissists of course can both get control over one another at the same time because
49:30
narcissist a insults narcissist b and narcissus b sulks narcissus day then feels i've got control unconsciously because i've made him shut up narcissus b in his head thinks i'm not talking to him therefore it's his decision so he feels like he's got control over narcissist a so two narcissists can actually control one another you might think it's mutually exclusive but it's not narcissists of course can give each other fuel and they can steal character traits from one another and they can acquire residual benefits but the problem is
50:02
ultimately with the issue of control is that it's a tempestuous relationship a lot of the time particularly amongst the lesser and the mid-range narcissists with a consequence that you try and assert control and the other narcissist would then retreat so you'd lose them so then you'd have to go and get the next narcissist who after a period of time may well assert control by withdrawal and retreat so then what does that do it increases the energy expenditure and as i think i've explained previously our narcissism operates on a sort of economy setting because we don't know
50:33
in that day precisely when we might be called on to have a real huge energy expenditure so it's a little bit like if at the start of each day the narcissist is given 100 narcissist points and the first person they interact with they can achieve control with using two points or 20 points the narcissism says well we'll use two points no point using 20 we need to save them because the next person who comes along might take 11 points so the narcissism has to operate in that economy setting and that's why we like
51:04
the path of least resistance hence why we go over empaths that makes so much sense speaking of m pass hg so you know i was attracted to or maybe not so much anymore i'm working on it but the excitement of the narcissism versus the quote-unquote normals yeah so who who who are we supposed to hang out with like um you only like try to find other empathic people do you get used to the normals or do you get sucked back obviously this is the answer but i would it's that it's this is it's the
51:36
excitement of the um being with the narcissist at least something stimulates stimulating happens versus hanging out with people like you said that are more in the normal range they i find them freaking boring so what's the solution to that well two things in part that's emotional thinking because there are plenty of empathic and normal people who aren't boring your addiction makes you believe that they are so that you don't hang out with them and you're attracted to narcissists because normals and empaths don't feed your addiction so the addiction says oh i
52:06
don't want you hanging out with them so color them boring so you'll seek out the narcissist instead wow lower your emotional thinking and you'll see through that and you won't think of them and also you go the other side of it yes we do present not all of my kind but we often are presenting as exciting fun full of energy and so forth but then when you understand the narcissist and you tackle your emotional thinking what's exciting about being with somebody that's abusing you right and when you start to look at it that way you think
52:37
yeah i can see you know he's got a lot of charm and whatnot but that pales into insignificance by the fact he's an out and out bastard yeah and when you can see it clearly it takes away the shine is lost and so for mo for what what people have to do is they have to push down that emotional thinking lower it through the no contact regimen staying away from no no no narcissists as much as you possibly can so that the emotional thinking can't cause you to keep thinking that normals and empaths are boring you realize they're not
53:08
and you also then think actually what i once thought was exciting it isn't because if you look at it logically it isn't you're so right about that do you think that um so are you saying when that you get your logic cone down and your emotions kind of you know stop being so rattled by that you know narcissistic environment that you will find normals or more chill people like you will to be you will with the people that i've worked with
53:38
commonly they go oh my hg i don't want a relationship with an empath or normal narcissist they're excited not an empath that's what i empathic people i do like i was just saying they're so rare though hg like do you just try to seek out like attracts like or do you just go for an empath or a normal i mean you know well you you go you the key is you know you don't go out there looking for the right person you avoid the wrong people that's the way to do it and then you'll find the right people by default
54:09
who have the right the correct interest and exhibit emotional empathy that's the way that you go about it the thing is when you're an empath who who's running around you who's who's clouding you the whole time who's who's creating a cluster around it it's us you can't see the empaths on the normals because you're surrounded by us right oh an empath and we all come swarming you guys is so much insight in an hour so we're on we're on the hour i'm going to ask you one more quick question we have a minute and a half here and then i'm going to have you enter tell people where they can get your services i just
54:43
wanted to answer this real quick hg the subject of fuel i just wanted to know what it feels like to a narcissist what is it what does it feel like it's power it feels like a rush inside so it depends what the starting point is so if a nurse is very low on fuel and has that sort of impending sense of doom um the irritation then it's like a soothing bomb so it's it eases as an artist and this to start to feel a little bit calmer and then as more fuel comes you feel emboldened it's a sort of rushing
55:15
sensation and then it gets more it's almost like fizzing fizzing with energy feeling like you could take anything on and the more that it comes you feel like a colossus that could do anything that you are this behemoth that is striding the world um but it's a sensation of power and ability to do anything an ability to achieve anything and it's uh intoxicating and i could feel the narcissist i was around i'm thinking of a girlfriend that just would yeah that would feed off that and it was almost i didn't realize it but it was like they would something
55:45
would happen where with me that would upset me or whatever and then she would become like emboldened almost like she needed that power to continue existing and to achieve great and to achieve greatness you know she was very active yeah yeah wow hd thank you so much for coming on for another fascinating conversation could you please tell people what you offer narcsite.com um is where you can avail yourself of the stuff that he has on the website the knowledge vault etc but please explain
56:16
whatever you'd like to say before we end off here certainly so if you require my help and you want to learn more about narcissism i have a range of platforms as doug has kindly explained there's my blog noc site narcsit.com where there are thousands of blog articles and a very good crowd of people that you can interact with i have a youtube channel hg2 to the ultra knowing the narcissist where there are 2100 videos about a whole range of different topics there also
56:47
if you want my bespoke help you can put consultations with me you can utilize detectors to ascertain are you an empath i are you dealing with a narcissist you'll find those in the menu bar at knarksite.com i have a knowledge fault which is chock full of brilliant and interesting material telling you all about different aspects of narcissism so there's a there's a huge depository of information you can have and i hope that we are able to speak again in the not too distant future to carry on our intriguing and entertaining conversations i really
57:18
really appreciate it man i know the listeners do too listeners if you are at all suffering um from narcissistic abuse or you're wondering or you're intrigued this is the guy to go to he saved um hundreds probably thousands of people's lives again hg thank you very much for your time i can't wait to speak to you again have a good day you too you're very welcome take care

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