SUBTITLES:
Subtitles prepared by human
00:00
Formally it's a democracy;
in constitutional reality
it's an authoritarian state.
It's like in the theater.
The setting is democratic,
but the actors
are not democrats.
It's a one-man-democracy.
A <i>Fuehrer</i> democracy.
Hungary is an undermined democracy.
It's a boring parliamentarian democracy.
At this moment Hungary
is not a dictatorship,
but we are moving
step by step in that direction.
When I say dictatorship,
I mean the opposite of democracy.
Never has a democracy failed
due to an excess of freedom.
No one could imagine that anyone
would dare take a step backwards.
It just wasn't in their minds.
The dictator is coming.
Dictator!
He's always greeted him that way,
for many years.
He openly says what everyone is thinking.
The term dictator makes no difference,
I mean we can deal with it.
And as long as that's the case,
he does what he wants.
01:43
And he knows it.
This is a declaration of bankruptcy,
when the leaders of the EU
can do nothing
against a dictator
in their own ranks.
What good is the EU then?
In the summer of 2020,
the heads of government in the EU
come to Brussels for a special summit.
Their objective is to pass
the coronavirus recovery fund.
Time is of the essence. Especially
for the states in southern Europe.
At the same time, the EU's budget
for the next seven years is to be set.
More than a trillion euros are at stake.
A massive undertaking.
A few days earlier, Germany took over
the rotating EU Council Presidency.
For the German chancellor,
this is also about her legacy.
Will she fight for Europe as an
"area of justice" at this summit?
Just like she said she would?
Germany and many other countries
are pushing
for the disbursement of funds to be linked
to a rule of law mechanism in the future.
It is a matter of respecting
democratic standards.
03:41
The fundamental values of the EU.
The time had come for the debate
about the connection of money and values.
We cannot accept
someone taking money,
and at the same time
destroying the foundation of our values.
We need to make a link there.
Money should only be given
if you play by the rules.
European solidarity?
Of course – but only
under certain conditions.
The new clause is aimed primarily
at member states such as Hungary.
But Prime Minister Viktor Orbán
wants to prevent
this rule of law mechanism at all costs.
He blocks negotiations from the start.
Orbán said: "You now need
to transfer a lot of money to Italy.
You're welcome to do that.
But I'll only agree if this
rule of law mechanism is weakened."
If you look at the social
and economic situation
in Spain, Italy, Greece,
France or in other countries,
then you know
how badly they need the money.
That's where my Italian colleague
impressed me.
He said: "We can't counterbalance
money against our values."
04:58
But that is exactly what happens.
Because with his objection,
Orbán is forcing values
to be questioned in the first place.
Suddenly, it's rule of law or corona aid.
They would like to reach something,
which is not good quality enough
in our understanding.
So, if there is a break,
it's because of them not because of us.
Orbán has everyone in a bind.
And he knows it.
Now you can say:
"No, that's non-negotiable!"
Then there's no pandemic aid,
and we'll have more deaths in Italy.
Extortion tactics come into play.
From the beginning.
That is because Orbán can easily
keep everyone else in check.
He cleverly exploits a flaw
in the EU-structure.
There are decisions
that require unanimity.
Hungary included.
The agreement must therefore
also be accepted by Hungary.
Otherwise there is no agreement.
Germany now had to
take on this new role.
06:09
By then, our main job
was to kind of hold it together.
And the chancellor would be perceived
as first among equals.
She is also expected
to contribute in a way
that these negotiations
are successfully concluded.
From the moment that Merkel,
as President of the Council of the EU,
indicated that in her opinion,
this issue was no longer the top priority,
it was clear that Germany
had given up its previous demands.
Suddenly, it was more important
to come to an agreement at all.
The German Chancellor must back down
and make concessions.
Because Orbán holds his line to the end.
He succeeds in significantly
weakening demands for the rule of law.
A compromise that confuses everyone.
In the end there was
this crude formulation
that was a mystery to many.
In the end, they needed a solution
to keep up appearances.
But it also led
to misinterpretations.
07:14
Regarding the rule of law,
the July compromise is very soft.
It's unbelievable.
Macron says one thing, Rutte another,
Rutte says one thing, Orbán another.
Everyone can interpret it individually.
Any attempt, which tried to make a
connection between rule of law and budget
was hacked,
was successfully rejected.
And we not just managed
to get a good package of money,
but we defended the pride
of our nations.
That he could present himself that way
did not come out of the blue.
He got his way on that one.
The results from the summit
bear his hallmark.
And that he is able to basically
have all 26 of the rest do his bidding,
is impressive, one might say.
But it's just scary.
Did Orbán really prevail?
Or is he just posing as a winner?
The text is deliberately ambiguous.
08:21
But it leaves room
for a rule of law mechanism.
Just as the German Chancellor
wanted it from the very start.
The rule of law mechanism
did not exist before.
For the first time, a connection was made
between money and values.
You can't make that go away anymore.
But how sharp will this sword be?
It's still pretty blunt.
Orbán can say, "I've won",
but it's there.
A few months later
in the European Parliament.
Michael Roth, Germany's
Minister of State for Europe,
is leading the negotiations
for the German Council Presidency.
Together with the members of parliament,
he now needs to work out the details
of the rule of law mechanism
that had almost been prevented.
Negotiations are tedious.
As the Council Presidency,
we are obliged to find a compromise.
So, I think it's a good thing
that all institutions,
the Council and Parliament,
are taking this with great seriousness.
We now have a window of opportunity
that must not slam shut.
It is a mechanism designed to protect
the rule of law throughout Europe.
09:37
How sharp will this sword be in the end?
Time is running out.
The pressure created by Orbán's "No"
seeps into the room.
The German Minister for Europe
senses it and passes it on:
Those who don't agree
are blocking corona aid.
I find it downright brutal,
that, for example,
Spanish and Italian MEPs,
can be put under pressure by saying:
"If you do not agree to this now,
then the people of our country,
the people you are responsible for,
will not receive reconstruction aid."
It is a deliberate ploy to put
the Parliament under pressure to act.
That's what Orbán wants above all,
that's what Kaczyński wants,
that's what a lot of people want
who don't want a rule of law mechanism.
Of course, they want both
the media and the public
to put pressure on us:
"You're the spoilers.
It's your fault the money won't flow."
We must not bow to this pressure.
10:51
The EU has been at odds with the
Hungarian Prime Minister for some time.
Orbán and his FIDESZ party
have been in power since 2010.
Even then there were conflicts
with the European Parliament.
In my many encounters with him,
I felt only one thing:
The room resonates
with his will to power.
When he had the chance
to turn the country into a FIDESZ state,
he used it without hesitation.
The change of power
follows a clear strategy.
He had planned for 15, 20 years.
He said all this back in 2009:
"We only need to win once,
but we need to win very clearly."
And that's when he decided
to never again relinquish this power.
It is a designed revolution.
Orbán aims to overturn
the political system in Hungary.
From the ground up.
In Parliament, he undermines
the very foundation of the state:
12:06
the Constitution.
His two-thirds majority
makes Orbán unassailable.
The Constitution is amended
according to his views.
Without notice.
It's the power of the strongest
that counts.
In the campaign
he didn't say a word about
wanting a new constitution.
In 2011, he passed a new constitution,
without referendum and discussion.
All this was set up in a flash.
And of course, it provoked conflict
with the European Union immediately.
The European Commission is at alert.
Nevertheless, the Commissioner for Justice
can do nothing.
All of a sudden, national experts,
representatives, ministers,
Members of the EU Parliament,
all came to the Commission
to talk to us about
the new Hungarian constitution.
That's a little unusual.
The more we dealt with it
and looked at the regulations in draft,
13:18
the more we saw that this was not just
a simple constitutional reform,
but that there were fundamental problems
with this amendment.
Therefore, at an early stage,
the European Commission
and Vice-President Viviane Reding,
who had just become the new
Commissioner for Justice, pointed out,
that the content in the first drafts
was not acceptable
for the European Union.
The European Commission
is the guardian of the treaties.
If there are conflicts with member states,
they must be resolved here.
The Constitution could be amended,
because the constitutional majority
was achieved.
But for a European democracy,
the content was
a real step backwards
and very startling.
Orbán is striving
to acquire absolute power.
To achieve that, he needs
to control the judiciary
and remove disagreeable judges.
But Orbán wants to maintain
a façade of democracy.
14:25
He simply lowers the retirement age,
sending hundreds of judges
into retirement.
As a lawyer, you realize this goes beyond
just a more efficient pension system.
Apparently, this drastic lowering
of the retirement age aims at
removing current judges
from their office
to bring a new generation of judges
into office as quickly as possible.
There is no chapter on how courts
should be equipped in the EU,
on how long judges shall be in office.
Up until now,
the EU has never had such regulations.
You can read all the treaties,
all the legal acts of the EU,
there is no instrument to combat it.
Orbán can undermine the EU
without breaking the rules.
The president of the commission at the time
puts a positive spin on the matter.
He has no alternative.
Until resourceful EU lawyers
come up with a trick
to stop Orbán's judicial restructuring.
The EU doesn't have
the instruments to govern there.
Therefore, we need to focus on our powers.
15:36
And so, at that time, the EU
could only state age discrimination
as a means against this blatant attack
on the rule of law.
A key politician
on the Commission said at the time,
that's a bit like getting Al Capone
for accounting fraud and tax evasion.
In 2010, Orbán, the newcomer,
appears confident in Brussels.
He can afford to.
Democracy must be protected every day.
But when the enemies of democracy
systematically create structures
at the highest level
to undermine the rule of law,
we have no means.
The European Union
is like a house with 27 rooms.
Suddenly you realize
that the horror lives in one room.
But that wasn't the case ten years ago.
They've added houses,
apartments and rooms.
And everyone was happy,
democratic and constitutional.
Suddenly you realize,
there is horror in the house.
16:45
What do we do now?
In the European Parliament,
battles of words erupt
with the Hungarian Prime Minister
on several occasions.
Orbán never dodges
and confronts the debates.
When he attempts to bring the media
under his control in 2011,
Parliament sounds the alarm.
I'll tell you something
very simple, Mr. Orbán.
There is no such thing
as balanced information.
Do you think Mr. Nixon
thought the Watergate information
was balanced?
Of course not!
And do you think Mr. Bush
thought the information about
Abu Ghraib was balanced?
Of course not!
Journalism must always
be uncomfortable!
And it is uncomfortable
and it hurts sometimes.
Do you understand that Europe
emerged as a reaction
against totalitarianism?
And that the basis of democracy
and freedom is freedom of speech?
Never has a democracy failed
due to an excess of freedom.
18:00
Democracies have failed,
when freedom has been restricted,
Mr. Orbán!
The debate is heated.
Some begin to realize:
This is about more than just
an unpopular head of government.
For the European Commissioner
for Justice, Viviane Reding,
the conflict with Orbán reveals
a fundamental design flaw.
There is something wrong
with the blueprint of the European Union.
That's when I realized
I don't have the instruments.
It's not right for someone
to trample on the democratic rights,
on the entrenched
and established rights of the citizens.
And I don't have any instruments.
At this point, there was really
only dismay and astonishment
that such a thing is possible
in a democratic constitutional state.
Do not forget that Hungary only joined
the European Union in 2004.
Everyone had to assume that Hungary
would follow the principles
that the country itself
had set as a member of the EU
19:15
and that are ratified by the treaty,
including the
Charter of Fundamental Rights,
that a member of this community
stands by its principles.
"It's all smooth sailing from here!"
That was the thought
of the fathers of the fundamental laws.
Everybody thought that if a state
has solved all the problems,
before it becomes a member of the Union,
then surely, once it's in the family,
it will continue to improve on that.
No one could imagine that anyone
would dare take a step backwards.
It just wasn't in their minds.
In the summer of 1989,
before the fall of the communist regime,
the Hungarian nation gathered
to commemorate the heroes
of the 1956 popular uprising.
It was the birth of Viktor Orbán
as a political figure.
There were 200,000, 250,000 people.
20:30
And there was a surprise,
when suddenly a young man,
who spoke on behalf
of the younger generation,
went beyond
what the others had said.
He also raised the demand
for immediate negotiations
on the withdrawal of the Soviet troops.
If we don't lose sight
of the ideas of '56
we can elect a government
which initiates immediate negotiations
about the withdrawal
of Russian troops.
Only if we find the courage
to want this
can we complete the will
of our revolution.
No one believes that the party-state
will change on its own.
The others who appeared on stage
were irritated.
Because that wasn't part
of what was agreed upon.
He didn't show his text beforehand.
21:49
He was that young bearded man
who raised demands on behalf
of the younger generation.
For many, including myself,
it seemed that it was too radical.
And that, of course, was his trademark.
In the summer of '89, Viktor Orbán
is a young, bearded man full of ideals.
An ambitious social climber from
the rural provinces studying in Budapest.
He founds the FIDESZ party,
the League of Young Democrats.
He was a liberal, after all.
He was Vice President
of the Liberal International.
It was a different Orbán.
He left the Liberals
because in 1993 he came to realize
that his young party,
the FIDESZ party, had no chance there.
He left at that time for reasons
of <i>realpolitik</i> and power politics.
23:05
He went from the left of center,
to the right of center.
He's actually a renegade.
Viktor Orbán – the apostate.
A renegade, a radical.
A man who can burn all bridges behind him.
In 2014, he surprises the EU
with a new concept.
He calls it "illiberal democracy."
Illiberal democracy, if you talk to him
he'll tell you pretty clearly:
"Your decadent, gay-ish
Western model of life
is the opposite of what I want.
I want family, nation, fatherland."
You can tell him a hundred times:
"That is the 19th century!"
He will say:
"No, it's the 21st century!"
It must be said that Orbán
has never hidden his actions.
He's been very open about it
right from the start.
He has said what his ambitions are.
And he has said that his model
is very different from that of the EU.
24:26
To me, the buzzword
of illiberal democracy...
is ideologically unacceptable.
Because a democracy
must be liberal and open per se.
It must be capable of discussion,
it must be capable of compromise.
This expression
of illiberal democracy...
There is no such thing.
There's democracy and illiberalism,
whatever that is.
I also believe that a "liberal,"
"social" democracy is daring.
Democracy is democracy.
It need not be supported
by accompanying words.
But illiberal democracy,
that's the path he wants to take.
That cannot be tolerated.
It means nothing more
but to shackle democracy,
to shape democracy in a way
that the preservation of power
of the government, or the party,
or the person at the top
will be preserved.
25:37
Democracy in shackles.
Pluralism in a stranglehold.
The state in the hands of one man.
Fact finding.
Together with his assistant,
Daniel Freund,
a Member of the European Parliament
for the German Green Party,
travels to Budapest.
He wants to meet
with the new mayor of Budapest,
who has been in office
since December 2019.
For Daniel Freund,
this is a glimmer of hope
in the long-simmering conflict
with Hungary.
Because the mayor is an opposition figure.
An avowed opponent of Orbán.
The two know each other. Karácsony
is also a member of the Green party.
Daniel Freund hopes for strategic advice
for the European Parliament's negotiations
around the planned rule of law mechanism.
What is the real state of democracy
in Hungary?
Why is it so important for the EU
to put up some resistance?
The news is sobering.
The government is doing all they can
to curb the leeway of the municipalities.
To do this, they deprive them of funds.
You can't govern without money.
26:53
There's a local tax,
which we have to pay to the state.
The government
abruptly quadrupled it.
Along with the economic losses
due to the pandemic,
this can lead our city
into bankruptcy.
But it is not only
the fragile opposition in Budapest
that is being financially sapped
by the government.
Karácsony sees oppression
elsewhere as well.
Look at the media, he says.
Daniel Freund visits Klubrádio.
The only remaining
independent radio station in Hungary.
Here, he first enters the stage himself.
He reports on the ongoing negotiations
over the radio.
We are negotiating at the moment
the biggest next seven-year budget,
the corona recovery fund.
Now is the moment to ensure
that all this additional money
does not disappear in corruption.
We as the European Parliament,
a large majority
28:09
from the conservatives
to the very left, we all want this.
This is not a question of geography,
it's not east against west,
it's not one political family
against another.
We are all united
on the importance of rule of law,
independence of justice
and media freedom.
For the time being,
there are still free interviews like this.
Uncensored, unrestricted.
But for how long?
During his conversation with the
managing director, Daniel Freund learns:
The license of Klubrádio
is to be revoked.
By the Hungarian law it is possible
to continue for another seven years
based on the decision
of the media council.
The media council
is not obliged to reason
why it gives or doesn't give the license.
That is clearly a political decision.
I don't think that the media council
itself makes the decisions.
They fulfill orders.
Independent media in Hungary.
It does exist.
29:21
But it is subject to arbitrary rules.
For no reason at all.
There's room, there are open frequencies.
There's no real competition
or anything.
Their frequency was simply taken away
because they are not wanted.
They don't want them to continue
as an independent
radio station in Hungary.
The last independent
radio station in Hungary.
A democracy in shackles?
After all, Orbán came to power
in free elections.
Does that mean the EU
should stay out of it?
Do election results really reflect
the free will of citizens?
Can they form an opinion?
Do they know what is happening
in their country?
Official election observers say,
the elections were free, but not fair.
Because there is virtually no space
in the media for the opposition.
Csaba Lukacs knows
what the media in Hungary can do.
And what they cannot.
The journalist has established
an independent newspaper.
I was working for 20 years
for the biggest newspaper in Hungary.
30:38
The day after
the last elections in Hungary,
I got an e-mail
from the editor-in-chief
that everybody must come
cause he had an announcement.
We came to the newspaper,
everybody was there,
everybody was excited
and the boss said:
"Tomorrow will be the last day
that we are publishing
a newspaper of 80 years old".
At that point, we realized
that more than 100 journalists were fired.
Newspapers closing.
This happens all over Europe.
But not because the government
is causing it behind the scenes.
That newspaper
was a conservative newspaper.
When FIDESZ won the elections in 2010,
they started to give us orders
but we tried to be
as independent as possible.
That was a sin
in the eye of the government
and they tried to kill us
as much as possible.
After the elections,
when the owner realized
that for him, the game is over,
because FIDESZ won again with two thirds
31:48
and there will be no chance to survive,
he made a deal with the government
and stopped the newspaper within one day.
There are no raids and no journalists
ending up in jail either.
It's more subtle than that
but it's everywhere.
FIDESZ did that trick two times in history
within two years.
They stopped the left-handed newspaper
and after one year they stopped
the right-handed as well.
It's like being in a protected reserve.
The media are given a run.
But only as far as the fence.
The government watches over the enclosure.
It is anything but true pluralism.
Scott Griffen of the independent
International Press Institute in Vienna
has investigated the situation in Hungary.
In Hungary, we are dealing with the
biggest press freedom crisis in the EU,
but this is not China.
This is not a story of censorship
of all citizens and of all news.
This is not Turkey. This is not
journalists being jailed or arrested.
32:57
This is a much different kind of system.
It's a much cleverer system.
The system is ingenious.
Because it operates without
overtly visible violence.
What happens behind the scenes
remains cloaked in darkness.
Once Orbán came into power in 2010,
the goal was to ensure total regulatory
control of the FIDESZ party
over the media council,
which oversees the media environment.
And basically, the plan was to slowly
push out independent publishers,
especially foreign publishers, German ones,
from the Hungarian media environment
and ensure that their media properties
are given to Orbán-allied oligarchs.
And this had the impact
that over time, obviously,
the editorial lines
of all of these media were flipped
to become pro-government media outlets.
Magyar Nemzet, the newspaper Csaba Lukacs
worked for, was closed after 80 years.
Just like that.
Many of the remaining newspapers
were brought in line.
But the control mechanisms
were tightened even further.
34:14
It turned out that this
wasn't enough for Orbán.
He decided to create
a foundation called KESMA.
And in November 2018, all of these
pro-government oligarchic owners
actually donated their
media properties to this foundation.
The end result of this is that you have
hundreds of media outlets in Hungary
which are owned by a single foundation.
And this foundation coordinates content
among this pro-government media empire.
There is no criticism.
You can give €100 or €500 to anybody
who finds a critical word
about Viktor Orbán
in the regime newspapers.
Doesn't exist.
No criticism in the controlled media.
What about the few independents?
How do they work?
Together with the journalists
from his former editorial office,
35:20
Csaba Lukacs has founded a new newspaper.
They can act freely
but the political system defines
where their freedom stops.
You can be oppositional,
you can be independent,
but you have to respect the rules.
To not write about the Orbán family,
to not make investigative journalism
and to be like a smooth opposition,
controlled opposition.
Controlled Opposition.
Democracy in shackles.
The new paper is moderate.
But Csaba Lukacs was unable to locate
a single printing house in Hungary
willing to print his newspaper.
There is a system of fear.
The journalists now have their paper
produced in Slovakia.
Once a week it is taken
across the border to Hungary.
Like a newspaper in exile.
We are not a controlled opposition yet.
But at this moment
they think that we are too small
and we are not too dangerous to them.
If we became bigger or if we had
a bigger effect on the society
they would probably try to do
as much as possible to stop us.
36:38
Like the city of Budapest,
the media is being drained financially.
Because the advertising business
is miserable for all,
80 percent of the ads
are paid for by the state.
Everyone is drip-fed.
Only the government determines who is put
into a coma and who is allowed to survive.
The makers of Magyar Hang are also
kept on life support in this way
and are thus controlled.
At the regime newspaper, a whole page
of ads is paid for by the state.
At Magyar Hang
this is limited to two columns.
There is freedom of the press
in a technical sense.
It's about creating this sense
of plausible deniability.
So that if someone accuses Orbán
of repressing press freedom,
he'll say: "Here's a critical media outlet
that's saying nasty things about me.
How can you accuse me
of repressing press freedom?"
But that's not the point.
The point is that the overall
media environment is heavily tilted
towards FIDESZ and Orbán,
and that these critical media outlets
exist in order to prove that point,
37:45
that critical media still exists
to be able to tell Brussels,
Washington or whoever,
"hey, don't come attack us. Look at
all these few examples that exist."
We all know that
the institutional framework,
the media situation in Hungary
is perfectly fine.
That's why we say, media pluralism
in Hungary is a lot more provided actually
than in any Western European country.
But diversity fights
for its survival every day.
Magyar Hang, the "Voice of Hungary",
has risen to become
the highest-circulation weekly newspaper
within a short period of time.
Their middle of the road course
finds its readership.
Especially in conservative circles
in rural Hungary.
But finding new subscribers there
is extremely difficult.
In Hungary the distribution
of the newspaper for subscribers
is made by the state company,
the Hungarian post.
And day by day we are receiving
phone calls or e-mails
where future subscribers are asking:
"Okay, I would subscribe,
but are you sure that the local mayor,
the party leader, or the government person
wouldn't know that I'm a subscriber?"
38:54
Nobody knows what's happening
with the list of subscribers,
we could not tell them
that we are 100% sure that FIDESZ
or the government, or the local mayor
would not know,
if you became a subscriber.
So the people are afraid
that they will be punished
because they are reading
an independent newspaper.
Even those who want to make it on
their own can hardly loosen the shackles.
Because the anti-freedom spirit
of the government
has contaminated society almost entirely.
A silent poison.
We are not in jail like in Turkey,
we are not shot like in Russia.
We could write what we want, of course,
but there is economical
and political pressure.
If we are asking something from the
government, we never receive an answer,
it's almost impossible to get data
from the government,
if we are making a mistake,
they are suing us immediately.
We had like more than 20 juristic stuff.
We won all, but one day it could happen
that we are losing one.
40:06
And if we would be fined
with 10 million forints we'd collapse.
So Hungary is not a dictatorship
at this moment,
but we are moving
step by step in that direction.
Viktor Orbán, for all intends
and purposes a dictator?
In the middle of the European Union?
No one obstructs his way.
Flashback to 2015.
Orbán feels safe.
He has got political friends,
especially in Germany.
Horst Seehofer, Bavaria's
Minister-President, is courting him.
Orbán is needed.
Orbán has allies, of course.
Orbán took a very hard line
on the migration issue in 2015.
Many conservatives and non-conservatives
feel sympathy for this position,
without having to say it clearly.
Orbán is doing the dirty work for them.
When hundreds of thousands of refugees
arrive in Europe in September 2015,
Hungary initially holds them back
with brutal force.
41:29
During the refugee crisis of 2015,
Viktor Orbán pointed out
that borders must be protected.
Of course in his exaggerated
and populist manner.
But the point that we need to know
what's going on at the external border,
that was certainly necessary
and also right.
The closing of ranks with the Bavarian
CSU party during the refugee crisis:
For Orbán it is still paying off today.
The restructuring of the political system
in Hungary is ignored.
We often discussed that
with Horst Seehofer:
"There's a change going on.
Watch out!"
He said: "No, he's just
being attacked all the time."
And then when Orbán spoke
to the party board,
suddenly some very conservative colleagues
came up to me and said:
"Well, Monika, that's not alright!
Those comments, just no!"
This delicate criticism
does not resonate at the European level.
42:38
The Hungarian FIDESZ is part
of the European People's Party, EPP.
Here, Orbán is revered.
Orbán's party secures the EPP's status
as the largest political group
in the European Parliament.
It's about political offices,
influence and power.
CDU leader Merkel is holding back
on open criticism of Orbán.
But how steep can the price be
to maintain the status quo?
Quite a few are calling for FIDESZ
to be expelled from the EPP.
Us Luxembourgers in the Christian
Social Party, we were of the opinion
that we couldn't stay in the EPP,
as Christian Democrats,
with someone who makes such a mockery
of the basic elements of our democracy.
As Luxembourgers, we feel uncomfortable
in a common party
that is partially courting Orbán.
Eventually, membership is suspended.
43:52
But Orbán's FIDESZ party
remains part of the EPP.
Although there is
little overlap in values.
I don't have a definitive solution yet.
Because if the major parties,
like the EPP, just shut everybody out,
then eventually there will be
a huge crowd that will say:
"We will join forces against all of them."
They will not be few.
And Orbán is trying to do just that.
There's a weighing of interests.
If we kick him out,
then the EPP will have a clean slate,
but what will be gained in the matter?
Isn't this perhaps the place to have
a conversation even though we disagree?
Because only with dialogue
we can find compromise.
Those were the considerations
in terms of membership.
The EPP cannot bring itself
to exclude FIDESZ.
It tolerates Orbán.
Is power more important than values?
It's embarrassing, it's wrong.
And it doesn't hold up
in the face of history.
How will history judge
what is happening in Hungary
45:05
at the beginning of the 21st century?
The country is part of the European Union.
What happens here concerns us all.
Daniel Freund, the EU parliamentarian,
on the road in Budapest.
On research.
He wants to visit a homeless shelter
with a soup kitchen attached.
It is run by Gábor Ivanyi,
a Methodist minister.
He presided over the marriage
of Viktor Orbán and baptized his daughter.
But since he has criticized his former
companion's style of governing,
he has fallen out of favor.
It's friend or foe.
The Orbán government denies him
official status as a church.
They are cutting off all public funds
that should be going to him.
And then, the first thing they do
is turn off the gas,
to a facility where 600 people
are hospitalized,
where they are living in shelters.
This is risking their lives.
Ever since he started to criticize
the system and corruption,
he's being systematically
worked over by Orbán.
46:29
But is this nothing more than
a personal feud between two men?
Is it really any of our business?
What does it have to do with the EU?
The pastor stretches his protective cover
over the disenfranchised.
Since Orbán has been in power,
homelessness is illegal in Hungary.
This soup kitchen is the only refuge.
It's about whether these people
on the fringes of society,
the poorest there are in Europe,
whether they are sufficiently protected.
Whether they have rights,
whether they'll be taken along.
Whether the money that we, as the EU,
want to pay for these weakest of the weak
actually reaches them in the end.
Or whether the Orbán system is preventing
the money from getting there.
Like here in this soup kitchen.
When we talk about an abstract construct
like a rule of law mechanism
that's what it comes down to in practice.
To systematically exclude
the weakest members of society.
They are screwed over and do not count.
The EU should make it clear
that it has nothing in common
47:40
with drawing-room Nazis
and drawing-room racists,
who are not physically
exterminating anyone
but by all their measures
make the lives of many people impossible.
600,000 Hungarians
have already abandoned their country.
More than after the 1956 uprising.
People without permanent residence
just don't fit in the political system.
Their poverty makes them illegal beings.
That's upsetting.
And it's Christians who say that.
This sort of Christianity, it's hypocrisy.
It's a disgrace to the term "Christian."
To be a Christian is to be Christlike.
Political Christianity in Hungary
has nothing to do with the Bible.
It's inhumane.
It's not in keeping with Christian values.
It's inhumane in every way.
Viktor Orbán, the apostate.
The man who shows no mercy to his critics.
49:06
Can he ever be a reliable partner?
What values does he stand for?
He is prepared to sacrifice others
without hesitation.
His entire life guided
by a single principle: attack.
He relishes it.
He's truly alive, when he's on the attack.
And the best mode of defense
is a well-timed attack.
The majority in Hungary insists
on its claims to absoluteness.
It is the maxim of Viktor Orbán.
He calls his will the will of the nation.
This world view requires enemies.
The regime finds
the perfect villain: George Soros.
In the run-up
to the 2018 elections,
the city is plastered
with incendiary slogans.
He was described as the devil,
as the person who is a traitor
and is out there to harm Hungarians.
The government created huge posters
with antisemitic overtones
and posted that all over Budapest.
It became very obvious that this was
a persecution campaign against him.
50:18
And also, he was made part
of the political campaign
that the government waged
for re-election that happened in 2018.
Well, Mr. Soros made himself
a political personality.
It's not us,
it's him himself who declared
that he is the political opposition
to Mr. Orbán's government, to FIDESZ.
Mr. Soros is using billions of euros
and dollars every year.
Then obviously the shadow of political
activism is all over the Soros empire,
and that is the Open Society Institute,
the university
and all the organizations that are
receiving funding from Mr. Soros' network.
George Soros is a billionaire, who amassed
his fortune as a hedge fund manager.
In the early 90s,
he recalls his home of Budapest,
from which he was forced to flee
as a child with his parents.
They were Jewish.
Soros wants to give something back
to the country of his birth.
He wants to usher in
a new age of democracy.
Of one thing he is certain:
democracies are vulnerable constructs.
51:29
Democracy, an open society, only survives
if it's tested, it's constantly
in danger of falling apart.
And there must be some people
who'll fight to preserve it.
In 1991, he founded the Central
European University for Social Sciences,
CEU for short.
"Good governance" is taught there,
as are the principles of the rule of law.
George Soros never bought in
to the happy story
that it would be easy after capitalism
and democracy came to Eastern Europe.
Transitioning into a society
where you have liberal
democratic education is a big step.
His financial clout accords Soros
with great esteem.
And influence,
which he uses to great effect
for democratization.
All around the world.
In 2016, he donates a new,
opulent campus building to Budapest.
It boasts a glass façade
and it thus transparent.
52:41
Just like the systems and causes
Soros advocates for.
He fights for pluralism, an open society.
Mr. Soros and his organization,
or framework, has a clear political goal,
they are going for it,
there is lots of money behind,
and you cannot be naïve
to presume that that money
is not trying to find its way
to make decisions, to influence,
and that is, to successfully
influence decision-makers.
It's not that we teach democracy.
The idea was not just
to teach democracy to students,
but to teach students how to exist,
how to function in a democratic context.
In a context of open dialogue.
So the idea was not to sort of
push an ideological point,
but to teach a mechanism, a way
to function in democratic societies.
However, this approach is seen
as meddling from abroad.
In the wake of the anti-Soros campaign,
parliament passes a new law
regarding what constitutes a university.
The new arbitrary,
bureaucratic regulation
53:48
is nearly impossible to meet
for the Central European University.
Under the ruling of parliament
that every fifth year
there is a supervision
of the higher educational system,
including foreign universities
and institutions,
all other institutions
could fall in, and that is,
could follow those guidelines
that are in the law,
except Central European University.
It was stunning,
first of all we were surprised.
The government had not
given much indication
that this had been in the cards.
So, we were surprised and appalled.
This was a total shock to us.
This university had been working in
this city for 25 years completely legally.
And it had been reaccredited several times
by the Hungarian authorities as well.
It was checked on a regular basis
by the Hungarian educational authorities.
There had been no complaints
against the workings of the university.
In 2017 he suddenly
introduced legislation that said:
"You can't continue to operate in Hungary
unless you have an agreement with me."
54:59
And we said: "Wait a minute,
that's a change of the rules."
We have around 21 foreign
educational institutions in this country.
Everybody could follow the rules
and follows the rules, except CEU.
That's a lesson not to us but for CEU.
The new regulation is merely a pretense
and everyone knows it.
80,000 people hit the streets
to protest this kind of despotism.
Signals of support arrive
from across Europe,
but they remain mere words.
I've had more European leaders
come to CEU and say,
"we deeply sympathize with your situation.
We deeply support academic freedom",
I've had more of those speeches
than I've had hot dinners.
And none of it has made
any difference whatever.
Over the course of the election campaign,
Hungary isolates itself more and more.
In a campaign speech,
Orbán takes tacit aim
at George Soros, the billionaire Jew.
He does not operate in the open,
but rather in secret.
Not honest, but unprincipled.
56:15
Not nationally, but internationally.
He does not believe in work.
He speculates with money.
He has no home,
but thinks the whole world belongs to him.
Hungary must be protected
against alleged attacks from abroad.
The Prime Minister presents himself
as the savior.
His nationalistic slogans bear fruit.
As he was able to get
the national media to fall in line
and has perfected his system,
he is once again reelected in 2018.
The third time in a row.
The minute the pressure was off,
he walked away from the agreement.
We wanted an agreement
because we wanted to stay.
Orbán walked away and said:
"We've got an agreement,
but I'm not going to sign it."
And he didn't sign it
because he wanted to win an election.
We're the first university
since the 1930s
to be forced out
of a European member state.
So it was a bit of a shock.
The decision is final,
effective immediately.
The Central European University
must vacate Budapest.
57:27
Within a few days time.
An ultimatum is issued.
We were rendered illegal.
And the key point is
the Europeans did nothing.
And don't misunderstand me.
I'm fine, the CEU will be fine.
It's not about us,
it's about academic freedom in Europe.
It's the kind of thing they do in Minsk,
not in a European Union
that is supposed to believe in
academic freedom, human rights, etc.
I'm angry about it, I hope you understand,
not because of CEU,
because CEU has the resources to survive.
Nothing will stop this university.
But what it says about Europe
is very troubling to me and depressing.
The CEU is by no means
an isolated occurrence.
The academic freedom of several Hungarian
universities has been severely restricted.
Most recently,
the directors of the University
of Theatre and Film Arts in Budapest
are stripped of their power.
58:36
Students occupy the campus for months.
Freedom of expression: a prized commodity
that in Hungary
is in increasingly short supply.
The CEU has relocated to Vienna
and will construct a new campus.
The relocation cost 200 million euros.
But it's about so much more
than just money.
Our university has got Hungarians
leaving Budapest to come to Vienna,
because they can't work freely
in their own country.
It's not as if we're foreigners.
I'm married to a Hungarian.
Most of my faculty are Hungarian.
They've been forced
to leave their country
so they can teach freely
in another country.
This is just ridiculous.
The university has begun fighting
the new Hungarian Higher Education Act
in front of the European Court of Justice.
They are there to win back the right
to do what is taken for granted in Europe:
To engage in the free exchange of ideas,
to teach freely.
It is the highest court in Europe,
the most powerful body in the EU.
59:45
We won at the European Court of Justice.
We didn't just win, we won completely.
But we got the judgement
two and a half years late.
In English, we say "justice delayed
is justice denied". I don't believe that.
I think whenever you get justice,
it's good.
But the reality is that Orbán
has won the political victory,
which is we're not in Budapest.
And it's a bitter, bitter fact for us.
Democracies require constitutional courts.
But is it not an absolute mockery
when such courts must be called upon
to enforce common sense?
What good is an arbitration ruling
if Orbán loses in a court of law,
but is nevertheless
able to reach his political goals?
Three steps forward, two steps back,
he's perfected that.
This man has a clear concept
and is very successful with it.
Always goes three steps forward,
two steps back.
But in the end,
that equals one step forward.
And I think that's what
makes his policy successful.
You won't stop people like Viktor Orbán
with good words.
01:01:02
If it is not possible
to enforce the existing mechanisms,
and that is the responsibility
of Heads of Government,
he'll go on and on.
The European Parliament is appalled
at the ouster of the Central
European University in the Fall of 2018.
Members of parliament vow to fight
to uphold European rights and values
without having to turn
to the highest authority.
They initiate a procedure,
the so-called Article 7 procedure.
The EU treaties already provide
that members
who do not abide by the rules
can be punished.
This goes to the point of exclusion
from the European Union.
And that's Article 7, which is important,
because it clarifies
that this endangers
the very foundations of the Union
and we're prepared to do everything we can
to eliminate that danger.
That's where the Parliament came in
with the Sargentini Report.
Judith Sargentini.
In the fall of 2018,
the entire weight of the procedure
lies on the shoulders
of a single representative.
01:02:21
In her report, she lists all of the
instances of misconduct in Hungary.
It is a large catalog of breeches against
the values of a constitutional state.
Viktor Orbán is forced
to face heavy criticism.
But he is not concerned,
he is toying with the system
by continually pushing the envelope
of what is legally permissible.
He puts the EU
to an incredibly difficult test.
Hungary was always on the fringe.
You never really knew.
It was difficult to prove legally.
Orbán always made sure
that he was in a grey area
where he could operate as he did.
But always with a loophole to say:
"We're correcting that now,"
or, "that's not what I meant at all."
At one point, Mrs. Sargentini said:
"We'll now prove in detail
that it is not like that.
That there are very real violations
of the EU treaties."
That was a bold move.
The Article 7 procedure
is internally dubbed "the atomic bomb".
It is the strongest weapon
the EU has at its disposal
01:03:31
to use against enemies from within.
Taken to the extreme,
it can lead to expulsion.
But first, Parliament must take a vote
if it should take effect.
It was a great moment
of parliamentarism.
She stood up and said: "We voted on this,
and we're going through with it.
We'll stand up for democracy."
There was a great sense of relief.
Suddenly, Parliament was
a living body.
Something was happening here
on a symbolic level
that was moving
and shifted majorities.
With the move, the parliament
has set a revolution into motion.
For the first time in its history,
it is putting a member state on trial.
It's not only about Hungary, but about
the protection of shared values.
Now, these plans have to be implemented.
But this takes place elsewhere,
in the European Council.
In the innermost circle of heads of state.
They and they alone will decide
if one of them will be sanctioned
for breaching the principles
of the rule of law.
01:04:50
It is a closed system,
a blackbox.
Closed off from public view.
No one can monitor
the decision-making process
because it takes place
in absolute secrecy.
Something unfathomable in the eyes
of EU representative Daniel Freund.
Shouldn't everything
in a democratic system be accountable?
All Council negotiations
take place behind closed doors
and are not accessible anywhere.
Which country represents which position?
What the Federal Government decides
in the European Council on our behalf,
what they're blocking or pushing,
is not accessible.
That means you need the notes
of someone sitting in the room with them.
His team obtained the confidential
protocol of the council meetings.
One thing is clear:
The Article 7 procedure initiated by the
European Parliament has come to nothing.
There were a grand total
of two hearings on the matter.
What happened to the previous momentum?
01:06:01
Who stymied its progress?
Is there a failure in the system?
The biggest problem is that no one
is really fighting for it on the Council.
All the exchanges
that would be necessary
to build up pressure on Hungary
progress very slowly.
In any case,
Germany is not leading the way
to ensure a healthy rule of law
in Hungary.
Apparently, the EU is unequipped
to deal with challenges from the inside.
There is simply
a lack of instruments available
to take on foes of democracy
in its own ranks.
At the very least,
they are ineffective.
There are flaws in their construction.
Article 7 is in fact
a very sharp instrument.
But this sword will be blunted
if it's subjected to a veto right.
This unanimity in certain areas
is a serious impediment to progress.
It promotes those
who are completely selfish,
stubborn, nationalistic
and blindly pursue their goal.
01:07:08
They can then prevail.
With the principle of unanimity,
Article 7 is not actionable.
That's the problem.
The EU is fighting a war on two fronts.
In 2017, an Article 7 procedure
is also to be initiated against Poland.
The decision will be made
in the European Council as well.
Behind closed doors.
Martin Schulz was present.
I have defended the Article 7 strategy
against Poland fiercely
at the European Council
in the presence of Orbán.
I also said: "I expect you,
heads of state and government,
to enforce the principles
of the European Union
against those who violate them."
Viktor Orbán said coolly:
"You may decide whatever you want.
I'll veto it."
That wasn't so much directed at me
but at the heads of government.
A member state is saying:
"I don't care about the outcome.
I'm not interested in the process.
No matter the outcome,
I'll veto it."
01:08:19
I thought, this is where
there should be an uprising.
Nothing.
And as long as that's the case,
he does what he wants.
And he knows it.
Viktor Orbán is the
unchallenged ruler of his country.
And he is set to expand
his powers even further.
With financial means granted by the EU.
On the road with Akos Hadhazy.
An independent representative
in Hungary's parliament,
he has spent years tracking
instances of corruption in Hungary.
The government often argues that
corruption exists in all EU countries.
But there is no such network
of corruption anywhere in the EU.
This network consists of the government
and the self-administration
which distributes EU subsidies
in Hungary.
Felscút, Viktor Orbán's birthplace.
It is an ideal place to study
how EU funds are put to use.
Hadhazy visits the home
of Orbán's childhood friend.
01:09:33
Here, Orbán's system begins to make sense.
A meticulously woven net,
in which cronies stand to profit.
His lifelong, loyal friend
is a plumber by trade.
Today, he's a billionaire.
Ten years ago, Mr. Meszáros
was just a simple gas fitter.
He was a nobody.
But he was a friend of Orbán's.
And today he is
the second richest man in Hungary.
He's managed to win
an extraordinary amount of
public procurements for his companies.
These projects,
these public procurements, are EU-funded.
They are financed by EU projects.
For most public procurements
we can prove
how these processes,
these procurements, are rigged.
The sign only lists a few
of the 200 companies
that the former plumber now owns.
01:10:42
But the most absurd EU project
this network has realized
lies just a few meters away.
It's a light rail.
A toy train,
pitched to the EU as a tourist attraction.
According to a feasibility study,
it's able to service
several thousand passengers
and will help jump start tourism.
It runs from Felscút
through the forest for six kilometers
and ends in the middle of nowhere.
The entire line was built with EU money.
Only a few people a day use the train.
You could dismiss it
as a countryside folly,
but it's this type of fraud that lies
at the heart of Viktor Orbán's rule.
There are dozens of such projects
designed to siphon off EU funds,
and to render his voters compliant
in the process.
It is a very simple principle.
In the villages, this network
is the most important thing for Orbán.
The mayors of these villages
can only do something,
01:12:00
they can only show people
that they have built something,
if they get EU subsidies for it.
The Orbán system tells them:
"You will get it.
You will get this project,
if your village votes well.
If you will vote FIDESZ."
The EU subsidies
go to Orbán's people.
They go to Orbán's friends,
to Orbán's soldiers.
Sociologist Bálint Magyar calls it a
"post-communist mafia state."
The mafia state is the organized
criminal upperworld.
The privatized form of a parasite state.
When the state itself
behaves like the Mafia,
they do not fight
against corruption as it is.
They fight against
unauthorized corruption,
against corruption which is not
managed and organized by themselves.
But at the same time, the state itself
is operated like a criminal organization.
The Dolomit mining company.
The majority share is in the possession
of the father of the Prime Minister.
01:13:10
According to Hungarian journalists,
the company generates
profit margins of 41 percent,
more than double that
of the market average.
It is said to be the most
profitable company in Hungary.
Meszáros wins the state projects
and provides the stone for the highways,
for the big buildings,
for the railways, by Orbán.
It is a never-ending cycle.
Propelled by funding from the EU.
Most of the projects
are funded by the EU.
That's how the money
from the German citizens
first goes through the EU projects
to Meszáros
and then to Orbán's father
and Orbán's family.
With respect to its
gross national product,
Hungary is the
leading recipient of EU aid.
None of the other 26 EU countries
has profited more.
Conservative estimates say,
20 percent of the funding
is fed directly into the spoils system.
01:14:30
In a post-communist mafia state
the Western taxpayer's EU money
is practically our oil reserve.
This is the oil reserve for the oligarchs.
Natural resources in Russia,
Azerbaijan, Central Asian countries
are used to keep up
similar types of mafia states.
As we do not have oil and gas,
we have the EU funds
and we use this for that.
These facts have gotten
the attention of Daniel Freund.
The EU Parliament member
sits on the Budgetary Control Committee.
He previously took on corruption
at Transparency International.
He exchanges views with Akos Hadhazy.
Hungary receives the second-highest
per capita amount of EU funding.
Since Orbán has been in office, more than
40 billion euros in aid has been received.
Hardly any other EU state
has received more.
Orbán's actions are also
motivated by the desire
to cement his authoritarian rule.
Orbán's entire family
is said to be involved.
01:15:42
One individual repeatedly appears
on the radar of investigators:
Viktor Orbán's son-in-law.
He is also accused
of unjust personal gain.
That this is possible
in the middle of the European Union,
that his family members and friends
are becoming so immensely rich,
that the profit margins of the father's
quarry are going through the roof,
that millions of Euro are diverted
in the simplest, most banal ways
into the family's own pockets
and we can't prevent,
as a European Union,
the money from being taken
from us like this, is unbelievable.
The EU is at least
hot on the trail of the matter.
A total of 13 major cases
are currently under investigation.
At the center of one of these
is Orbán's son-in-law.
He is accused of engaging
in anti-competitive practices
to receive lucrative contracts
for retrofitting streetlights with LEDs.
The EU's anti-fraud authorities, OLAF,
conducted the investigation.
01:16:48
In this single case, it recommended
the repayment of 43 million euros.
In reality, however, they are powerless
to fight such frauds,
due to the fact that they are unable
to conduct any investigations on site.
The control system is dependent
on the participation
of reliable judicial systems
in the member states.
Thus, the authorities in Brussels
often find their hands tied.
Despite the fact that investigators
are aware of problems in Hungary.
Of course, we don't reveal our cases,
but in some member states like Hungary,
the figure is quite high.
When we close the case and we send it,
our mandate stops there.
So then it depends on national
authorities what they will do with it.
Most of the time we send it
to the national persecutor
and they are totally free and independent
to decide if they indict the case or not.
In Hungary the indictment rate
is too low of course.
I was in Hungary in January
and we wanted to know
01:17:59
if there are some reasons
why they don't indict.
The authorities are powerless.
Since there are a host of such cases
in other member states
that have run aground
and are unable to be prosecuted,
the EU founded the
European Public Prosecutor's office.
In November 2019,
it commenced operations.
Based in Luxemburg,
it can investigate across Europe.
However, both Hungary and Poland
refuse to participate.
After 20 years of negotiations,
it's finally about to start.
But we didn't manage
to get all the member countries on board.
That would have required unanimity.
The two missing ones, Poland and Hungary,
know why they don't want to be members.
Why they don't want the European
Public Prosecutor's Office to have access
to the distribution of EU funds
in the two countries.
It's very understandable that Orbán
fights for national sovereignty.
But for a criminal organization,
the national sovereignty
is just a cover ideology
01:19:08
of the wish to have impunity
and the EU should realize
that Orbán and his gang are criminals
and they should be treated as such.
In the European Parliament,
negotiations on the rule of law mechanism
enter the next stage.
Parliament members
are as certain as they've ever been
that there must be an effective instrument
in place to protect the EU
from corruption from within.
Daniel Freund shared the findings
of his research trip in Hungary.
When we're investing more money
than ever before,
it must be certain that the money
is going where it's supposed to go.
For this, we need
an effective control mechanism.
To the Parliament, these two things
have always been inseparable.
We saw that this
was broken up at this summit,
that solidarity and the rule of law
are not thought of as one.
Both are fundamental pillars of the EU.
It doesn't work without the rule of law,
but it also doesn't without solidarity.
Behind closed doors,
marathon negotiation sessions take place.
01:20:25
Among others, Daniel Freund debates
details with the German EU Minister.
Negotiations drag on for months.
Everyone is fully aware that the
Hungarian Prime Minister is threatening
to continue blocking the EU.
That strains talks to the extreme.
There were clear statements
from the European Parliament.
Without the condition of rule of law
there would never be consent.
We have also adopted this position.
But then, we also had to
put a proposal on the table
which is in line
with the Council's conclusion.
And that caused a lot of trouble.
The Council's current proposal
is a step backwards.
We can already shut down a program
in case of maladministration.
It would be a step backward if we'd have
to ask the Council in the future
whether we can shut down a program
in the event of maladministration.
It's a joke.
So, the proposal is unacceptable.
Negotiations threaten to unravel
as the German EU Council President
fears Hungary's veto.
It hangs over the negotiations,
crippling them.
01:21:39
It also causes the negotiations to
lose sight of the most essential issues.
Because all of a sudden,
the core of the EU values
find themselves on the negotiating table.
I actually wanted
to make it clear again.
What we presented
is the starting point for negotiations.
Negotiations mean
moving towards each other.
Consequently, we will also automatically
move from our original proposal
towards the European Parliament.
When it comes to the core values,
no compromises are possible at all.
What does the rule of law mean?
Separation of powers,
independence of the judiciary, free media,
a critical culture,
the protection of minorities.
This is not negotiable.
This is universal.
And you can't give in.
Not one iota.
It is primarily thanks to the members
of the European Parliament
who prevent the constitution itself from
being dismantled by the chief negotiators.
01:22:52
After months of drawn-out talks,
they reach an agreement
with the German EU Council Presidency
regarding the rule of law mechanism.
A way to protect European democracies.
Those struggling for democracy
seem to have prevailed in the end.
A complete bipartisan effort.
When the decision was made,
we were happy, of course.
Then, at some point,
Warsaw and Budapest signaled:
"We don't agree with that."
Poland and Hungary
close ranks with each other
and block the resolution agreed upon
in the European Parliament.
They are determined
to prevent the rule of law mechanism.
Their narrative now is:
"We have a different history,
we have a different culture.
That's why we just have different values.
We interpret the rule of law
differently than you do.
You think the rule of law is this.
We think the rule of law is that.
And we'll settle
somewhere in the middle."
You can't do that with values.
01:24:13
If we engage in this discussion,
we're already
on a very slippery slope.
We must never let that happen.
Never.
Will the EU allow itself
to be blackmailed?
And allow the blackmailers
to dictate the line?
Did the EU not realize
that it is only two member states
who are questioning the principle
of European solidarity?
I think the heads of state and government
must be aware of one thing:
In such a situation the EU cannot afford
to be brought to its knees
by Poland and Hungary.
I think it's all or nothing.
A formulaic compromise
is no longer possible.
Everyone here is aware
that there have been repeated attacks
on the rule of law in Poland and Hungary.
Where the independent judiciary
is under attack,
the freedom of the press
is being restricted
and the states are strangling
academic freedom.
Furthermore, minorities are oftentimes
not afforded protection.
All of this is taking place
right before our eyes.
This is about the basis
of our Europe,
01:25:25
of our states, of our democracy.
Nothing more, nothing less.
This is the basis on which
we have built our system.
There are now countries
of which we used to believe
that they are deeply rooted democracies
that are beginning
to discredit the judiciary.
So if not now, when?
We must make clear
what our values are.
Should they really back down
from the enemies within their own ranks,
in order to assist countries on whom
the pandemic has taken a heavy toll?
It is one of the biggest crises
to ever face the EU.
The German chancellor finds a compromise
that will break the Hungarian veto,
thus freeing up corona aid.
The solution: a mechanism
pertaining to the rule of law will come.
But the instrument
is to be first put on ice.
The European Court of Justice
should analyze its validity,
which will take over a year.
Orbán has won time and will thus be able
to further strengthen his grip.
01:26:39
When the house is on fire, how long
can you wait to put out the flames?
Is it a compromise or a capitulation?
The voters and the Hungarian opposition
must resolve the domestic conflicts.
I'm working on that, too.
But the EU must strengthen its own
immune system against such challenges.
Because if the member states see how much
they can get out of such destructive ways
while destroying the community,
this will set a precedent.
Then, many Viktor Orbán-alikes
will come up in the EU.
A new generation of Viktor Orbáns.
That is the risk.
Critics say that the course taken
by Chancellor Merkel
was one of appeasement with the autocrats.
A Faustian pact.
It could break the EU.
A taming of Orbán can only take place
in the long term, in stages.
I know this is frustrating for the voters,
frustrating for the citizens,
frustrating for anyone who deals with it,
including me.
But the European Union
is a machine
01:27:49
that works slowly,
but very efficiently.
I think this is a political battle
that will go on for many years.
And we are only at the beginning.
Does the EU really have
the luxury of time?
Or will the Orbán model,
to achieve personal gain
without paying heed to the greater good,
become common practice?
The EU has reached a crossroads.
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